Jet Hot coating the INSIDE of the Intake Manifold
06-24-2003, 06:08 AM
#11
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Thread Starter
I am resurrecting this thread because I just exchanged PM's with oracle about it. He said that the inside of the intake manifold would be sorta bead blasted, then coated.
Anyone have any new opinions?
Anyone have any new opinions?
06-24-2003, 06:24 AM
#13
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He described it as being similar to honing. This may not be a good thing for the F20C, but I have heard of other cars benefitting from it. It would reduce turbulance, and increase flow.
06-24-2003, 08:15 AM
#14
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Anytime you are able to increase the airflow through the motor you will see performance gains. The process we use is mainly for cleaning, but it has the added benefit of honing the surface. Now I'm not going to tell you will have a mirror finish inside, that requires polishing, but the flow of air will be increased and the turbulence will be decreased.
The process is to put the manifold in a ceramic bead tumbler. Different sized ceramic medium is then forced through and around the manifold. The result is a smoothed out finish that is similar to honing.
In the instance of what gernby is trying to accomplish he will see an increase in airflow due to the more "honed" finish, and additionally there will be a drop in temperature inside the manifold.
As we all know cold air is more dense and thus has more potential to make power.
Now, since we are not talking about a forced induction situation there is a limit to how much you can increase the airflow. (Even in forced induction obviously there will be a limit as well) You can only flow as much air as what your head and your exhaust system will allow. At the same time there is a balance necessary to see the maximum flow (and power gains). If you open up your exhaust , but do not supply the airflow you will lose the vacuum created by the system. Your air velocity will drop, and so will your HP.
If you have an VAFC you can kind of get an idea of what I'm talking about by watching your vacuum. A car with a high flowing intake and a restrictive head or exhaust will see a positive number. Almost like boost. You are seeing more air coming in, than your motor can effectively take in. Thus air flow is restricted. Ideally you want to see as close to zero as possible. This will happen when your exhaust/heads are flowing the same as your intake.
Please bare in mind that forced induction situations are different as you are attempting to cram as much air as possible into the motor. You have a mechanism causing the boost.
As far as having the coating flake off into the motor, this not going to happen. You would need to see the extreme heats associated with the exhaust to have this happen. Even then it is highly unlikely.
Please keep in mind there is a difference between a low quality and high quality product. You get what you pay for.
Since the members here own S2000's, I know this is not a problem. If you weren't about quality you would have bought a different car.
If there are any questions feel free to ask.
- Chris
The process is to put the manifold in a ceramic bead tumbler. Different sized ceramic medium is then forced through and around the manifold. The result is a smoothed out finish that is similar to honing.
In the instance of what gernby is trying to accomplish he will see an increase in airflow due to the more "honed" finish, and additionally there will be a drop in temperature inside the manifold.
As we all know cold air is more dense and thus has more potential to make power.
Now, since we are not talking about a forced induction situation there is a limit to how much you can increase the airflow. (Even in forced induction obviously there will be a limit as well) You can only flow as much air as what your head and your exhaust system will allow. At the same time there is a balance necessary to see the maximum flow (and power gains). If you open up your exhaust , but do not supply the airflow you will lose the vacuum created by the system. Your air velocity will drop, and so will your HP.
If you have an VAFC you can kind of get an idea of what I'm talking about by watching your vacuum. A car with a high flowing intake and a restrictive head or exhaust will see a positive number. Almost like boost. You are seeing more air coming in, than your motor can effectively take in. Thus air flow is restricted. Ideally you want to see as close to zero as possible. This will happen when your exhaust/heads are flowing the same as your intake.
Please bare in mind that forced induction situations are different as you are attempting to cram as much air as possible into the motor. You have a mechanism causing the boost.
As far as having the coating flake off into the motor, this not going to happen. You would need to see the extreme heats associated with the exhaust to have this happen. Even then it is highly unlikely.
Please keep in mind there is a difference between a low quality and high quality product. You get what you pay for.
Since the members here own S2000's, I know this is not a problem. If you weren't about quality you would have bought a different car.
If there are any questions feel free to ask.
- Chris
06-24-2003, 09:16 AM
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Thought you guys might be able to benefit from this post I made in another thread....
I could be wrong, but I believe that Jet-Hot's cerama-coat is only rated up to 1300 degrees. Even the cerama-coat we use is only rated to 1600 degrees. In order to achieve higher temps you would have to look into the flat gray for 2500 degrees, and the flat black for 3600 degrees.
The coatings do make an amazing difference.
The way we will set up a turbo car:
- On the intake side of the turbo we use 1600 degree cerama-chrome; coated and polished.
- The exhaust side of the turbo, manifold, downpipe, and midpipe is done in 3600 degree flat black.
- All of the intake piping will be done in 1600-degree cerama-chrome.
- The turbo spindles and shaft is done in dry lubricant
Dry lubricant is a moly based chemical which doesn't build any thickness due to the
fact that it is electrically applied. It dissipates heat and reduces wear and friction
allowing the turbo to spool faster.
The result is less fuel consumption to produce the same amount of power, drastically reduced under hood temperatures, and less radiated heat.
For example:
Take a manifold with 180 degree radiated heat. Coating it will drop the temp down
to about 70 degrees. For every 10 degrees of radiated heat that you save you'll
have a 1% efficiency gain. So on a 500 hp motor you will see aproximatley a 50 hp
gain.
Not too shabby for just coating some parts.
We don't recommend Jet Hot coat due to the fact that its color doesn't stand up to prolonged use, the coating doesn't look as good as the supplier I use, and the coat does not perform nearly as well. The finish we use looks much better and is laid on thicker.
The problem with using the cerama chrome on all of the components is that the exhaust temps will destroy the finish. The ceramic properties will still remain, but the finish will fade out.
If you try to use cerama-chrome on all of your components the exhaust pieces will
last maybe 1-2 years on a show car which is only driven to move it, and be gone
very quickly on a daily driven or raced car.
To give you an example on our pricing:
Intake side of turbo: $90~
Exhaust side of turbo: $90~
Exhaust Manifold: $150-$175~
Turbo Spindles and Shaft: $40~
Downpipe, Midpipe, Intake Piping: $35 per foot
Since we're in the middle of the show/race season there is about a 2 week turn
time. It's a busy time of year.
Let me know if you have any questions. I'm more than happy to answer them.
- Chris
I could be wrong, but I believe that Jet-Hot's cerama-coat is only rated up to 1300 degrees. Even the cerama-coat we use is only rated to 1600 degrees. In order to achieve higher temps you would have to look into the flat gray for 2500 degrees, and the flat black for 3600 degrees.
The coatings do make an amazing difference.
The way we will set up a turbo car:
- On the intake side of the turbo we use 1600 degree cerama-chrome; coated and polished.
- The exhaust side of the turbo, manifold, downpipe, and midpipe is done in 3600 degree flat black.
- All of the intake piping will be done in 1600-degree cerama-chrome.
- The turbo spindles and shaft is done in dry lubricant
Dry lubricant is a moly based chemical which doesn't build any thickness due to the
fact that it is electrically applied. It dissipates heat and reduces wear and friction
allowing the turbo to spool faster.
The result is less fuel consumption to produce the same amount of power, drastically reduced under hood temperatures, and less radiated heat.
For example:
Take a manifold with 180 degree radiated heat. Coating it will drop the temp down
to about 70 degrees. For every 10 degrees of radiated heat that you save you'll
have a 1% efficiency gain. So on a 500 hp motor you will see aproximatley a 50 hp
gain.
Not too shabby for just coating some parts.
We don't recommend Jet Hot coat due to the fact that its color doesn't stand up to prolonged use, the coating doesn't look as good as the supplier I use, and the coat does not perform nearly as well. The finish we use looks much better and is laid on thicker.
The problem with using the cerama chrome on all of the components is that the exhaust temps will destroy the finish. The ceramic properties will still remain, but the finish will fade out.
If you try to use cerama-chrome on all of your components the exhaust pieces will
last maybe 1-2 years on a show car which is only driven to move it, and be gone
very quickly on a daily driven or raced car.
To give you an example on our pricing:
Intake side of turbo: $90~
Exhaust side of turbo: $90~
Exhaust Manifold: $150-$175~
Turbo Spindles and Shaft: $40~
Downpipe, Midpipe, Intake Piping: $35 per foot
Since we're in the middle of the show/race season there is about a 2 week turn
time. It's a busy time of year.
Let me know if you have any questions. I'm more than happy to answer them.
- Chris
06-24-2003, 09:49 AM
#16
Registered User
Originally posted by Oracle
For every 10 degrees of radiated heat that you save you'll
have a 1% efficiency gain.
For every 10 degrees of radiated heat that you save you'll
have a 1% efficiency gain.
06-24-2003, 10:12 AM
#18
Former Sponsor
Thread Starter
Originally posted by vapors2k
hold off, at this moment, a cf intake manifold is in the werks with an improved design for better flow.
hold off, at this moment, a cf intake manifold is in the werks with an improved design for better flow.
06-24-2003, 11:19 AM
#20
[QUOTE]Originally posted by vapors2k
[B]
it's not going to be REALLY expensive, target price range has not been set yet, but the design of the manifold will be determined partly via computer software and dyno tuning.
[B]
it's not going to be REALLY expensive, target price range has not been set yet, but the design of the manifold will be determined partly via computer software and dyno tuning.