1AP12NV

Just to clarify I want to make sure I'm right about the Alaniz stuff being building services and not delivered crate motors I'm just trying to clarify becuase the price argument seemed to be a little apples and oranges

jdm knowledge

from the website and i quote "YOUR GOOD USABLE LONG BLOCK CORE IS REQUIRED."

And AusS2000 please stop the cultural remarks it sounds very racist. You might not mean to come off that way but it really sounds like you are. Using remarks like that in more than 1 of your post to get your point accross isnt appreciated.

AusS2000

WTF!!! Is this the old "can't argue with your logic so I'll pull the racist card" tactic?

What exactly are your refering to? My comment about eating sushi or the one where I said Japanese culture was known for perfectionism?

terd ferguson

Re-read your quote. You said people buy JDM goods because blah blah blah. Iwas not speaking about motors in that particular post. Engine builders are a dime a dozen here in the states. Ask my guy Jack at P1auto.com how many f'd up motors from other shops he ends up rebuilding.

I stand by my statement that there are no USDM domestic companies producing performance parts for the S 2000 that are comparable in price, quality, lightness, etc. If a US company would produce a header that doesn't suck and was cheaper than J's, or Toda, or Amuse, I'd buy two.

Somebody show me some good domestic products and JDM will be deader than Superman.

terd ferguson

With all due respect, you sir, are a retard. Oh, and I've already got my own bridge.

terd ferguson

This is exactly the point I was trying to make. There are no US domestic shops offering already built, in stock motors for the S 2000. In fact, there are really no domestic products of any kind for the S 2000 that are cheaper and/or are more effective at what they do (more power, lightness, etc.)

I dare somebody to prove me wrong...

AusS2000

So can Rick's take that as an order for two then?

I'm not questioning the supply ability nor quality of specific JDM parts. The only thing I object to is the generalisation that if it is JDM is good, if it is USDM (or AUSDM) it is crap. That is an ignorant generalisation.

I stated that some people willbuy things just because they are JDM. If this isn't true, how come people buy the Japanese stickers for the fuel filler? Are they somehow better? And what about the person who asked where they could get the ASM Speed Limiter Defender? Had this person done their research and concluded that there was some advantage tot his product or have they just been bitten by the JDM bug?

Here's a product comparison for you. Mugen, Amuse and Spoon all make aftermarket ECUs for the S2000. They all remove some of the overly cautious safety functions of the OEM ECU and provide an increase in power. They also cost a bomb. Can you argue that plugging in an ECU design in Japan for race use and 100 octane fuel is better than buying and tuning an AEM fully programmble ECU that can be tuned to your individual car?

That said, I believe the AEM is actually made in the UK by a company called GEM or something but the point is still valid.

terd ferguson

All I can remember about Rick's header is the promise of dyno results for 6 months.

I'm not saying "If it is JDM, it is good. If it is Mexican domestic market (or "fill in the blank domestic market") it is bad. I'm saying there are simply no US manufacturers (or anyone outside of Japan for that matter) who are producing quality parts that are more effective at what they do and cheaper.

Comparing a fully programmable ECU like the AEM EMS to a reflashed stock ECU like Mugen or Spoon or J's is not a fair comparison. They do not serve the same purpose. However, if I were in the market for an ECU, I would choose the AEM EMS due to it exponentially greater versatility over a basic reflash (especially since the cost is around the same).

I understand your argument that people who buy JDM parts so they can brag about having JDM parts are pricks. While I understand your point, I don't neccessarily agree. To each his own, its their money, etc. They will prove how naive they are on their own. My argument is J's Racing crate motor haters are tards. J's builds a good motor that is available for purchase RIGHT NOW. It makes power and is a good alternative for those searching for an off-the-shelf motor that is in stock and ready to bolt in. I honestly don't know who could argue that point. Price a new motor from Honda, and J's is suddenly not that expensive.

ultimate lurker

The J's motor is insanely expensive for the relative power you get. Here's an example of why:

Karner's F22C race engine started out as a brand new short block from Honda. It cost $2500 jobber. It came completely assembled. All we had to do was bolt on our head and sensors from the 2.0 liter. Took about 2 hours. If you didn't want to reuse your head, you could buy a new core from Honda for $1200 retail (less jobber I'm sure). You might as well reuse your cams (we did) as they only take 20 minutes to swap in (before a valve adjustment). We had a valve job done by Joe Alaniz to HC legal specs. Retail on his work was probably about $800. We also put in Ti retainers at about $300. We reused the stock TB and intake manifold. Total time to assemble the motor (and I am not a motor builder, just going by the book) was about 5 hours including the head install, cam swap and sensor swap. That's $4800 in parts if you don't reuse your head, and, if we paid someone to do the labor, about $400 there. This motor, with just an AEM EMS and some tuning put down 3 hp more than the average 350Z on my dyno, and 15 hp more than the best 2004-2005 Acura TL I've ever dyno'd - that's why I say 285-290 crank hp.

There is more waiting in there to be sure, but this is an example of how simple it is to get that power. With the J's you're going to spend $10k for 10 hp more (we'll have to dyno it I guess to be sure, maybe they underrate it in which case the equation changes). Even if you include the cost of AEM tuning on the "stock" motor, you're still only looking at $5600 out the door. A J's motor at $10k still requires you to use their ECU and other bolt on's I bet, does it even come with an intake manifold? I was checking their 2.0 liter N1 spec motor (looks like about $5k in Japan w/core exchange) and they use OEM pistons, rods, etc. and just balance the motor. Is that really worth it?

This is not to say J's or any of those guys do bad work, but when you really look at what you get, it's hard to justify unless the brand/bling is important to you. If it is, go for it!

UL

AusS2000

You really need to settle down. You take some hyperbolic view of mystatement and argue against it. Be my guest, but I never said anyone was a prick. I just said if you're biased towards JDM then don't try and justify it any other way.

Thomas Jefferson said that most of a our so called reasoning is a search for evidence to support what we want to believe. I think that opinion is as valid today as it was when he said it.