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Alaniz engine producing ~285bhp with NEW block and head
$6700 (rounded from $6693) - NO ECU
$8100 (rounded from $8093) - AEM EMS ECU
J's Racing engine producing ~300bhp with USED block and head (plus additional items such as oil pan, oil cap, etc.)
~$11000 (includes *ALL shipping required) - NO ECU
~$12500 - ECU included (take your pic, I just added $1500 for an ECU)
* - ALL shipping refers to cost of delivery of J's engine to your door or chosen installation facility AND cost of shipping back your old head and block
Any decent tuner with AEM EMS experience can tune a near stock F22 like I did, so you wouldn't have to send it to me (although I'd be flattered if you did).
If you bought a brand new F22C from the dealer (for what, $5000 new) and shipped it to Alaniz, you'd pay about $1000 for Alaniz's services and Ti retainers. This wouldn't be a full port and polish, just a mild cleanup and valve job. The full work is more expensive, but gains more power (see his website). Then you just add your bolt ons (which also need to be added to the J's crate motor) and tune ($300-$500).
If you took the approach that David Karner did, you'd send Alaniz your 2 liter cylinder head and buy a stock F22 short block for $2600. You'd then install the head on the new block (about $400 labor if you don't want to do it yourself) and add your bolt ons and tune.
Everyone needs to remember that whatever approach you take (J's, Alaniz, stock engine), you'll need to have good bolt on accessories (I/H/E) and engine management (JDM aftermarket ECU of AEM EMS). All those are a wash on price as is removing and replacing the engine in the car. So what you're really comparing is the price of the engine + any tuning.
AFAIK, a straight off the shelf crate motor from J's, with no exchange, is about $10k w/o shipping. I may be off, but I don't think by much. Alternatively, you can go the route David did and spend about $4500 with tuning costs (again, not including the ECU and bolt-on parts). Or, you can buy a new head (or used head) so you don't have to disassemble your current engine and add $1k-$2k to that total, depending. All you do then is swap over your alternator, intake mani, etc. when you swap engines (goes very quick once the old engine is out of the car), which you have to do with the J's anyway. You can then keep your old engine as a spare, or sell it for a couple thousand $$$.
If you wanted more power, you could easily spend a lot more with Alaniz ($8k-$10k), but considering his 2 liter race motor last year made more than our current factory 2.2 block does, I suspect his 2.2 will make a hell of a lot more than 300 hp at the crank.
Originally Posted by JSR_AP2' date='Feb 19 2005, 03:52 AM
Alaniz engine producing ~285bhp with NEW block and head
$6700 (rounded from $6693) - NO ECU
$8100 (rounded from $8093) - AEM EMS ECU
J's Racing engine producing ~300bhp with USED block and head (plus additional items such as oil pan, oil cap, etc.)
~$11000 (includes *ALL shipping required) - NO ECU
~$12500 - ECU included (take your pic, I just added $1500 for an ECU)
Those are pretty much the numbers that I came to, but keep in mind that J's builds your motor from used motors and Alaniz could do the same. That should reduce your cost from $6700 to $4700 at the most.
I've got concrete information and numbers now. I will post dyno plots of the J's 2.2 litre motor that confirm J's Racing power claims. I will not reveal actual numbers until I post the plots. I also have concrete pricing information that the customer paid, not just what J's says they charge (He opted to not exchange his motor and paid the core charge. This would make the swap cheaper, as some of you noted with the Alaniz build, as he can now sell his long block to recover some of the cost of the swap. I assume this will be a fair subtraction in cost since the J's detractors subtracted the cost of selling the short block in the Alaniz build.). I will post that as well. This new and exciting information will enlighten some of you who think a 300 ps 30kgm crate motor is overpriced.
I am awaiting the plots to be emailed to me by the shop. When I receive them, I will post them. It may not be today, but it will be soon. Be patient please. Till then, here's a couple of pictures of one of my daughter's with our new tiger...
I think we can all pretty much stop arguing and post prices and just let this be an informational thread for people doing NA buildups, at this point, right guys?
02-18-2005, 08:52 AM
