J's racing f22C
02-17-2005, 12:12 PM
#111
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Originally Posted by terd ferguson' date='Feb 17 2005, 04:02 PM
Don't make assumptions. I was racing cars and motorcyles when you were 3 years old. I know all about dynos and the differences between them. I know all about the variances that can occur with respect to humidity, engine temp., ambient temp., etc. I know all about the variances between dynos of the same brand. Dynos are a tool. They give specific information on a given car at a given moment in time. It may be totally different tomorrow even with the same car and dyno.
With that being said, different dyno brands and different cars can be compared to some extent. A Dynojet reads 10 to 15% higher than a Mustang dyno. A Dynapack reads even higher than that. With these factors taken into consideration, you can compare dyno results to a limited extent. Which is what we are doing.
With that being said, different dyno brands and different cars can be compared to some extent. A Dynojet reads 10 to 15% higher than a Mustang dyno. A Dynapack reads even higher than that. With these factors taken into consideration, you can compare dyno results to a limited extent. Which is what we are doing.
02-17-2005, 12:13 PM
#112
Thanks for that Terd! You do realise that price is for an exhange engine:
* By the engine trade-in price consumption tax & postage that perfect movement goods are normal
WARNING
It is a price to take STD. engine of the perfect movement as a trade-in. It lets the (As for the details, ask.) product which has normal security in the case of the one except for our company work go to the point, and it can make a delivery. (It has normal security.)
WARNING
It is a price to take STD. engine of the perfect movement as a trade-in. It lets the (As for the details, ask.) product which has normal security in the case of the one except for our company work go to the point, and it can make a delivery. (It has normal security.)
02-17-2005, 12:16 PM
#113
Registered User
Oh yeah, 498000 yen equals $4,724.85 US as of today. Like I said, not a bad deal at all. And AUS 2000, you don't have to wait months for a J's crate motor, just a few weeks (probably the same as a local build up) or sooner for more cash for faster shipping.
02-17-2005, 12:20 PM
#114
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Originally Posted by kane.s2k' date='Feb 17 2005, 01:12 PM
You were comparing it before like you didnt though.
Sorry for the confusion.
02-17-2005, 12:21 PM
#115
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Originally Posted by ultimate lurker' date='Feb 17 2005, 09:29 AM
A stock 2.0 liter S2000, depending upon year, averaged 212-217 whp. Stock 2.2's are averaging 238 whp.
02-17-2005, 12:22 PM
#116
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Originally Posted by AusS2000' date='Feb 17 2005, 01:13 PM
Thanks for that Terd! You do realise that price is for an exhange engine:
"According to J's site, you get valve and port grinding too. You also get their valve cover, oil cap, oil filter lock (which is very trick), and oil pan. Thier price on their site for the 2 liter is 498000 yen with exchange."
02-17-2005, 12:34 PM
#117
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According to the price listed in Hyper Rev for the 2.2 making a "claimed" 300 ps and 30 kgm of 837900 yen with exchange of your engine, this works out to $7,949.71 US as of today. An incredible bargain to be sure.
For less than $8,000 not including shipping and with an exchange of a working motor, you get a hand assembled, balanced and blueprinted stroked motor with headwork, J's valve cover, J's oil pan, J's oil cap, and J's oil filter lock making a claimed 300 ps and 30 kgm. If this motor makes anywhere near 300 ps even to the crank with no other mods than engine management, you'd be incredibly stupid not to want one instead of having one custom built.
Something else to consider is that the price of the 2 litre motor has gone down since Vol. 97 No. 3 of Hyper Rev was published. If the price of the stroked motor has gone down as well, you'd be even stupider not want one instead of a local build.
For less than $8,000 not including shipping and with an exchange of a working motor, you get a hand assembled, balanced and blueprinted stroked motor with headwork, J's valve cover, J's oil pan, J's oil cap, and J's oil filter lock making a claimed 300 ps and 30 kgm. If this motor makes anywhere near 300 ps even to the crank with no other mods than engine management, you'd be incredibly stupid not to want one instead of having one custom built.
Something else to consider is that the price of the 2 litre motor has gone down since Vol. 97 No. 3 of Hyper Rev was published. If the price of the stroked motor has gone down as well, you'd be even stupider not want one instead of a local build.
02-17-2005, 12:34 PM
#118
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The J's website states that their crate engine, in conjunction with other J's parts, made 300 hp. I'll bet those parts included a big throttle body in addition to their ECU. David's car starts and runs on a stock ECU, but is too lean for my liking.
Terd, I disagree, the numbers don't support your assertion. You can't compare one dyno to another for one thing. And, David's motor, even using 1AP12NV's web quoted numbers, cost only $6600. And the motor, internally, is largely stock. You get a mild valve job and some Ti retainers for reliability. Skip the valve job if you want, even the retainers since we're only revving the engine to 8200 rpm. We know a full head port on a mild NA engine is worth less about 10 hp right now, the valve job is probably worth half that, but you can save money. And the power output is about 10 hp less than the J's crate motor when tuned - and that same J's motor just includes a bunch of stock parts anyways. When the dyno graphs get posted (I have sent them to an admin here), you'll also see that the midrange is where the big gains are at - upwards of 35 lbs-ft of torque at 5000 rpm.
The point being, as AusS2000 put it, is that for 30% less than what J's charges for just the basic engine (no bolt-ons, no engine management, etc.) you can get a basically stock F22C to make almost the same power. And I'll bet it could match the J's engine with a TB and the like. If you feel the need to spend the extra $$$, invest in a nice Canton remote oil filter, oil cooler, etc. for about $700. And then spend some $900 on some Toda cams and another $400 on some Toda cam gears. Still less than the J's motor and I'll bet you make more.
UL
p.s. - David's motor was dyno'd with 200 miles on it and runs heavier oils in the diff, tranny and engine than stock cars due to the rigors of racing . I'll bet it makes a little more now, and would make even more with stock fluids. The comparison motor I've included in the dyno sheets had 5000 miles on it. Maybe I should open up a crate motor business...
Terd, I disagree, the numbers don't support your assertion. You can't compare one dyno to another for one thing. And, David's motor, even using 1AP12NV's web quoted numbers, cost only $6600. And the motor, internally, is largely stock. You get a mild valve job and some Ti retainers for reliability. Skip the valve job if you want, even the retainers since we're only revving the engine to 8200 rpm. We know a full head port on a mild NA engine is worth less about 10 hp right now, the valve job is probably worth half that, but you can save money. And the power output is about 10 hp less than the J's crate motor when tuned - and that same J's motor just includes a bunch of stock parts anyways. When the dyno graphs get posted (I have sent them to an admin here), you'll also see that the midrange is where the big gains are at - upwards of 35 lbs-ft of torque at 5000 rpm.
The point being, as AusS2000 put it, is that for 30% less than what J's charges for just the basic engine (no bolt-ons, no engine management, etc.) you can get a basically stock F22C to make almost the same power. And I'll bet it could match the J's engine with a TB and the like. If you feel the need to spend the extra $$$, invest in a nice Canton remote oil filter, oil cooler, etc. for about $700. And then spend some $900 on some Toda cams and another $400 on some Toda cam gears. Still less than the J's motor and I'll bet you make more.
UL
p.s. - David's motor was dyno'd with 200 miles on it and runs heavier oils in the diff, tranny and engine than stock cars due to the rigors of racing . I'll bet it makes a little more now, and would make even more with stock fluids. The comparison motor I've included in the dyno sheets had 5000 miles on it. Maybe I should open up a crate motor business...
02-17-2005, 12:41 PM
#119
Registered User
Originally Posted by terd ferguson' date='Feb 17 2005, 01:34 PM
According to the price listed in Hyper Rev for the 2.2 making a "claimed" 300 ps and 30 kgm of 837900 yen with exchange of your engine, this works out to $7,949.71 US as of today. An incredible bargain to be sure.
UL
02-17-2005, 12:41 PM
#120
Originally Posted by terd ferguson' date='Feb 18 2005, 07:34 AM
For less than $8,000 not including shipping and with an exchange of a working motor...
If you don't then let's get real. You either need to pay the non-exchange price, ship a motor to Japan, or source one in Japan and have it shipped to J's.
You then need to consider freight, duty, etc.
These are all real world issues and add to the price and inconvenience.
If we're just racing on paper it might sound great, but in the real world it's a very different story.