SlowTeg

I don't think anyone has EVER said VSA is perfect. As many have said on s2ki, it's good for driving your car upto about 90%. Like I said in one of my examples, it's clear that VSA trys to "preempt" dangerous situations by stopping things before they get to that point. So, if you are very comfortable and feel like having fun in your car and really push it, turn VSA off, no one's saying otherwise.

I still don't get your "in a situation where in a "correct" grip threshold the vsa would kick in and create LESS grip." statement. I don't think VSA will ever kick in and create "less grip." It kicks in to prevent you from getting to that point of "less grip," but arguably doesn't actually reduce grip.

If you want to turn off VSA, turn it off. I can't believe we're still yammoring on rehashing and beating the dead horse. Thanks mikegarrison for clarifying the shortcomings in the VSA. It certainly makes sense in certain situations the VSA misinterpreting "dangerous" situations. I've seen many "recalls" to reprogram different VSA systems by different manufacturers due to "flaws" in the programming. I think people expecting VSA to be perfect are being silly.

Billman250

I think the VSA system in the S2K is great, for one reason: the ability to turn it on and off for the conditions.

It is not perfect, but it does what it is supposed to when needed.

I can see how it can hamper an ADVANCED driver. I have experienced it first hand on the track, it is not pleasant at all.

I can also see how it can save your ass, in situations like hydroplaning.

I can say for certain that if all s2ks had it, there would be a lot less of them sitting in the scrap yard.

mikegarrison

It is not very smooth. That's what he's talking about. If you want the best performance out of your car, you have to be smooth. VSA unsettles the car.

R3DS2K

this maybe true the the option to turn them off wasnt there.

GTS Jeff

[QUOTE=whiteflash,Apr 10 2010, 10:54 PM] And perhaps you missed the part where I said without VSA you could push it to 110%.

trinydex

what i mean by "in a correct grip threshold the vsa would kick in and create LESS grip, is this.

you are at about 95% grip, the tires aren't really making noise, you still have a good amount of wiggle room (ie you are not killing the tires with overdriving or excessive throttle or unnecessary braking)

in the turn where all the above is true, the steering angle happens to be such that vsa determines you're not going where the system thinks you want to go and kicks in with BRAKING (no matter how you cut it, this is what vsa does, it brakes).

braking uses grip.

this will put your over your 95% and COULD put you over 100% at which point you will begin to slide. you probably won't slide uncontrollably as the vsa is engaged and will try to damp out yaw by pulsing the brakes in the programmed sectors/combinations.

you will slide once you're over the grip threshold.

even if it doesn't put you into a slide, it can still put you into awkward and not exactly predictable handling situations when grip threshold is not exceeded (you're not sliding, hence threshold not exceeded) as the car tries to fight your intended direction of movement with what it has mistaken.


as to your last comments... this thread began with some of the worst condescension and condescending prescription i've seen in a looong time and i've been on the internet for a bit.

i think it odd that this thread migrated from keyboard doctors praising and prescribing, without question, the merits of vsa to now where the tables have turned.

the thread has however been useful in diagnosing how and why the vsa comes on.


to close, i believe that vsa is definitely useful in sudden grip loss senarios, first rain oil, oil on the track, going from pavement to nonpavement at track. the matrix of braking patterns available to the vsa is all scientifically proven to damp yaw, no doubt about it.

dammitjim

^^^ VSA applying the brakes will slow the car down

trinydex

doesn't slowing the car down require grip?

dammitjim

Yes, and VSA is smart enough to tell which tires/wheels have traction available and use those to slow the car

whiteflash

GTS Jeff; I understand what you're saying but I think you're still missing what I'm saying completely. When testing my corners I use it as a learning tool, not as the de-facto fastest way to take it. Last time I checked, people learn in different ways and this forum was open for opinion. I never said VSA is the fastest way to track, infact i said opposite. All I was saying that, IMO it's the fastest way to learn the cars characteristics until you get more advanced through the corners. But I will stop here. To each their own, I just prefer to learn in a different way I suppose.

cheers