dammitjim

AFAIK most stability control systems including Honda VSA use steering angle, yaw and lateral acceleration sensors to determine what the car is doing. That is in addition to things like throttle position, engine speed, etc.

spook

Multiple track days and HPDE training, and this driver didn't know to be careful driving on cold tires?

Slows2k

This part..

Not unlike many on S2ki that have made a mistake driving on the street.

mikegarrison

I have personally experienced (while riding as an instructor) VSA engaging in track situations in which it caused problems. The situation in question was when, at the point in the corner when the driver should start to apply power and let it track out to the outside, the VSA reacted to the slip angle by cutting the throttle and unsettling the car. It did it in the same place, repeatedly.

The car didn't crash, no. But I was really disappointed with my student and his lack of smoothness in a very critical part of the corner. When he told me it was the VSA, I was surprised. However, he proved that by turning it off. He was able to drive the car much smoother through the corner and achieved a better result.

Now this was a situation I would not expect to encounter in normal street driving. If I had VSA on my car, I suspect I would just leave it on for street driving. But based on that one experience, I would probably turn it off while on the track.

whiteflash

While I haven't tracked my car yet (although I plan to) I plan on running with VSA on. VSA kicks on when you're taking your tires past their limit, in which case is a symptom of taking a turn incorrectly. If you're truly able to take advantage of your suspension/tire setup (regardless of how good/bad they are) then you should be able to push the car right to the point where you're on the border of where VSA would kick on. If you continue to accelerate at the same pace when VSA sticks of course you're going to have an undesirable experience. Slow in, fast out. IMO you shouldn't be taking a line where your VSA system needs to kick in. If anything it's an instant learning tool that tell you either you're taking the wrong line, or you're taking the right line too fast when entering the turn. I wouldn't run with it off until I felt like I had an extremely proper knowledge of the turns.

That's just me though, and everyone has their own styles of driving. To me it's an instant gratification learning tool, in which case when you've figured out how to properly take it to 100%, then with it off maybe you can push it to 110% with the proper knowledge. I have an extremely early morning commute (leave around 4:45) in which case city roads are empty. I have a couple of different styled turns that I use to really guage my abilities. Some are more simpler bends, some are banks, some are 275'ish degree turns. If I see VSA kick in, I know I messed up and I figure out where I went wrong. Did I come to the inside too soon, too late, too fast. While I understand the street is not the track in terms of road quality and speeds, I feel it will give me a much greater knowledge when I'm doing a U bend, hitting hairpins etc once I am able to get on it.

blurrrrrrs2k

The VSA kicks in when you want to slide the rear end through a turn and counter steer but it has helped maybe once or twice.


It is good when the riding gets schlickery!!


It's also not good when your looking to squeel the tires and take off like a bat out hell. It doesnt allow the tires to burn out.

mikegarrison

Interesting. And yet, maybe you missed the bit where I mentioned that I was instructing, and the VSA was clearly causing problems. I assure you that my student was taking the line I was telling him to take, and that I know what the right line was supposed to be.

Maybe you also missed the bit where he turned the VSA off, and then my student got his car through the corner both faster and smoother.

Perhaps after you have some track experience you can come back and tell us if your opinion has changed.

trinydex

this is what precisely bothered me intellectually. that in a situation where in a "correct" grip threshold the vsa would kick in and create LESS grip.

just to clarify for all the people who want to tell me what to do, i did not ever exceed grip, nor did i ever have vsa actually make me lose grip, but it DID ENGAGE in situations where grip was both available and in plenty (such that it did not put me over the grip threshold). bothersome indeed.

whiteflash

And perhaps you missed the part where I said without VSA you could push it to 110%. VSA is a clear indication of what your car does not like, not what the driver is able to handle. As I said before, once you understand what the car can do, then the car will realize what the driver can do. I said it was a learning tool, not the ultimate solution.

mikegarrison

Seriously, I have thousands of miles on racetracks with my S2000, and you say you don't have any. So it's fairly silly of you to be telling me about how the car handles at the limit, or that I'll know better "once I understand what the car can do."

I also have thousands of miles on racetracks sitting in the right seat, teaching people. So likewise, please allow me to have my own ideas about whether VSA is a good learning tool. I've already said that if I had it on my car I would leave it on during street driving. But I can tell you for a fact that it is not "a learning tool." It's not designed to be one, and it is not one.

(There are times and places and particular students for which I would recommend VSA be left turned on when on the race track. And I would never suggest to a student that they turn it off -- that would open me up to legal liability I would not want to have. But none of that is because VSA is a "learning tool." It's a "save your ass when you make a mistake" tool. But it errs on the side of safety, and can limit learning in some situations that are uncommon on the street but not so uncommon on the track.)