boiler

Kekoa, it sounds like this could be a difficult thing to resolve. Usually, if an item is listed in the owner's manual as a wear item and you have any miles on the car, the dealers won't want to touch it. I had my clutch changed for the buzzing sound and the original clutch seemed to be a lot weaker than the one that I have now.

I understand the unbearable part of your situation. My clutch was buzzing when I drove it off the lot, new. After 17,000 miles, I couldn't stand the buzzing any longer and had it replaced. I was actually surprised that the dealer didn't give me a hard time about replacing the clutch, even for a known TSB.

Good luck with your search for a fix from Honda,
Bob

mas

Kekoa: Does it only happen after the car's been driven for a while? Like stop & go trafic?

mas

boiler: The worst part about this situation is that I also have the buzzing problem, but the TSBs are not valid for the 02s otherwise I would have them fix the buzzing without mentioning the clutch problem.

xviper

I cannot say that I understand your predicament as my clutch (even after several thousand miles with S/C) is still working strong and holding up well. This is not meant as a flame, but only to ask you to analyze your situation to see if what I'm about to say has any bearing so that your next clutch might have a bit better service life.
It is possible that your clutch has suffered more than usual wear, in part, due to your shifting technique (clutch/throttle/shifter syncronization). When you shift aggressively at high rpm, is your clutch activation and release extremely rapid and complete? Do you let your throttle go enough such that at the moment the clutch is out again, the rpms "match" the tranny speed in that next higher gear? If there is too slow and too incomplete a clutch release combined with too much difference between the engine speed and the tranny speed in that next gear, you will get the beginning of clutch slippage. Having started this mild slippage, you will begin the downhill spiral to clutch wear. Then, the situation will only get worse and worse with time. The more you begin to slip, the more you will continue to slip till you get to the point that it is hard NOT to slip.
What was said about the PP plate needing to be stronger holds true. This will help to compensate for any slight irregularities in that "syncronization" I spoke of and lessen the likelihood of the commencement of that "downhill spiral".
Eventually, I too, will need a new clutch. This is only inevitable with any manual car, especially one with FI. I plan to get either a stock disc or an ACT disc (reworked stock disc) PLUS a heavy duty PP for more clamping force.
Hope noone took this post wrong and I truly hope it helped someone.

Kekoa

Mas, it doesn't really happen too bad in stop and go, but as you know its sometimes hard to get the car moving in first gear without rideing the clutch just a little. It happens to be at high rpm shifts where I shift quickly and punch it. I know its not the greatest thing for the car, but oh well. At this point, the clutch slips from 1st to 2nd then 2nd to 3rd.

I'd love to explore the whole pressure plate replacement thing, but I'm very unknowledabel about that stuff.

mas

xviper: I understand your point, it makes perfect sense. The situation, however, is not that simple. I also have the 1-2 grind at high rpms and with that in the back of my mind it's hard to shift "perfectly" at all times. I still do not think it's that bad to cause clutch problems at 30,000 miles. The car has not seen any abuse, no "launches" at all. I'd expect at least 60,000 miles out of any clutch that is not abused.

Any suggestions for a shift technique that takes into account the the 1-2 grind & the clutch problem?

xviper

That 1-2 grind is a REAL PITA and can most certainly affect anyone's shifting technique and this in turn, will affect clutch health. I think it is necessary to resolve that issue before or at the same time as the clutch issue (as they may be related).
"Former" has been having slight grind issues with his car that I believe has finally been resolved to his satisfaction. We did all sorts of things to his car and it's hard to say which one actually brought the problem to a satisfactory conclusion.
1st, we changed the clutch fluid. This worked for a very short time. We had already changed tranny fluid a couple of times, each time, improving things somewhat.
He always makes sure that he uses the left shift rail as he moves into 2nd. This, at least, more assuredly allows for proper "gate" positioning.
Then, he had the dealer replace either 1st and/or 2nd gears and synchros (can't remember which now). He also noted that upon inspection of the "old" pieces, that they showed little or no difference from "new".
Still, it didn't feel quite right, so I started to play with the clutch pedal adjustment. Finally, I reached an adjustment that was about 1/2 turn on the plunger rod that extended his plunger travel (counter-clockwise, I think). This seems to have finally resolved things. He hasn't made any unusual remarks now in many weeks. I believe he is finally enjoying his car the way it was meant to be.
I also noticed that he was very careful with his shifting, making sure that his clutch was right to the floor before beginning his shifter movement. I believe this only aggravated the situation because when I prodded him to shift more aggressively and quickly, his car responded much better. Timing is critical for this car. I actually begin pulling (or pushing) on the stick at the same instance that the clutch is starting to be pushed and my throttle is starting to be let go. It is not necessary to wait till the clutch is on the floor before beginning shifter movement. (You can, without harm, take the tranny OUT of gear without the use of the clutch.) This may only serve to throw off the timing enough to create problems later. This whole action is timed such that at the moment the clutch touches the floor, the shifter is just entering the next gear. For me, this seems to allow the rpms to drop just enough but not too much, making for a more precise rev-match. And yes, we do rev-match on an up shift. It's just not obvious like it is on a downshift. If it's done wrong, you will get that notchiness, occasional grind and reluctance to go into gear.
As I said earlier, a stronger PP may be a means by which a slightly "off" shifting technique may be compensated for, PLUS, the other benefits are many. The disadvantage, of course, is a sore leg in stop and go traffic, but you'll just develop a stronger leg in no time.

mas

Thanks XV! I've already adjusted the clutch pedal and it has improved the notchiness at low speeds but not the high RPM grind. I've also changed the clutch fluid and need to change the tranny oil now. Even if it fixes the problem, I wonder if I'll ever be comfortable with high RPM 1-2 shifts again, it'll probably still be in the back of my head.

I think I know the solution - a new car!

xviper

hehe! I think for a small number of owners, sadly, this may be the only answer.
ps. I would get the occassional high rpm grind but only at times when I know the tranny is extremely hot (like on very hot days when I've been running the car hard). I discovered that it was me. In that momentary state of frenzy, I did not apply sufficient left force on the stick to keep it lined up with the 2nd gear gate. When I consciously did, the thing didn't grind the next time.

929_vagabond

I've got a MY01 with 27K on her. No real problems with clutch slip, to date, until I took her to San Francisco last weekend. Found myself on one of the steeper hills (this hill was almost scarey steep), with traffic behind me. Wanted to make sure that I didn't roll back too far, so I made sure that I transitioned from brake to gas a little more aggresively (tried to get to about 3-4K) and as quickly as possible. I also wanted to make sure that I transitioned through the clutch engagement (friction) zone as quickly (and smoothly) as possible. No, I didn't step off the clutch pedal, as if launching the car. While releasing the clutch I increased fuel. I think that I was pretty successful, since I felt the car roll back only about 6 inches. With my foot completely off the clutch pedal, the clutch slipped for about 3 - 4 seconds. During this time, the car "caught" itself (stopped from rolling back), held the hill and started moving forward at about 1-5 mph, while I modulated the fuel feed to prevent the car from slipping backwards. During this time I maintained engine speed at about 4-5K RPM. At first the slippage was pretty bad, but I could feel the clutch start to slowly bite, until it finally fully hooked up (this all with my foot completely off the pedal).

Didn't try to duplicate this (for obvious reasons), but the clutch was fine up to, and after that (on less radical hills). I've scheduled an appointment to have the car looked at next week. It'll be interesting to see what the shop has to say.

P.S.
By the way, no clutch slippage since this incident.