How big of a deal is AP1 oil consumption?
12-17-2009, 07:53 AM
#21
Originally Posted by Conedodger,Dec 17 2009, 09:39 AM
I have autocrossed my AP1 at 15+ events per year for 6 seasons. I use Mobil 1 and only need to add 1/2 to 1 quart over 6k miles.
12-17-2009, 10:33 AM
#25
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Ok lets not get off topic.
This is what I need to know:
1. How can you tell if the s2000 is BURNING oil vs. CONSUMING oil? What is the difference?
2. Does oil consumption mean that the engine is slowly losing performance? Or can I expect to own the s2000 for 50,000 miles or so without noticing a difference or there being a difference?
3. Does it mean the engine has started to basically die out?
4. Why is it bad? What is it doing to the performance of the car?
5. Is oil consumption basically just loss of oil and something you need to check the levels of and it will perform like a car that doesn't consume or burn?
This is what I need to know:
1. How can you tell if the s2000 is BURNING oil vs. CONSUMING oil? What is the difference?
2. Does oil consumption mean that the engine is slowly losing performance? Or can I expect to own the s2000 for 50,000 miles or so without noticing a difference or there being a difference?
3. Does it mean the engine has started to basically die out?
4. Why is it bad? What is it doing to the performance of the car?
5. Is oil consumption basically just loss of oil and something you need to check the levels of and it will perform like a car that doesn't consume or burn?
12-17-2009, 10:58 AM
#26
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11Past9 Posted on Dec 17 2009, 09:33 PM
Burning... consuming... tomato.. tomato 
If there is no oil leaking out of the engine, its consuming or burning it.
Its either left on the cilinder walls (= supposed to happed btw) and burned during combustion or sucked into the intake via the PCV and burned.
Some oils evaporate a bit more than others (NOACK rating) so that could make a small difference too.
Early F20's are known to use oil but not all of them do.
Using oil does not have an affect on performance.
It's not a problem and it's not causing a problem.
As long as you keep the oil level between the upper & lower limit its going to be allright.
It will make the exhaust tips black.
Oil consumption alone: no.
If you get lots of blue smoke going from throttle to no trottle to throttle, if the compression / leakdown values are low and unequal, if the car has no service record, then you should think twice IMO.
Its not bad.(see #3).
It makes you check & add oil on a regular basis.
That's it.
If the engine is losing oil you have a leak and that should be fixed.
If the oil level drops from driving: normal.
See #3 and #4.
1. How can you tell if the s2000 is BURNING oil vs. CONSUMING oil? What is the difference?
If there is no oil leaking out of the engine, its consuming or burning it.
Its either left on the cilinder walls (= supposed to happed btw) and burned during combustion or sucked into the intake via the PCV and burned.
Some oils evaporate a bit more than others (NOACK rating) so that could make a small difference too.
2. Does oil consumption mean that the engine is slowly losing performance? Or can I expect to own the s2000 for 50,000 miles or so without noticing a difference or there being a difference?
Using oil does not have an affect on performance.
It's not a problem and it's not causing a problem.
As long as you keep the oil level between the upper & lower limit its going to be allright.
It will make the exhaust tips black.
3. Does it mean the engine has started to basically die out?
If you get lots of blue smoke going from throttle to no trottle to throttle, if the compression / leakdown values are low and unequal, if the car has no service record, then you should think twice IMO.
4. Why is it bad? What is it doing to the performance of the car?
It makes you check & add oil on a regular basis.
That's it.
5. Is oil consumption basically just loss of oil and something you need to check the levels of and it will perform like a car that doesn't consume or burn?
If the oil level drops from driving: normal.
See #3 and #4.
12-17-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SpitfireS,Dec 17 2009, 11:58 AM
11Past9 Posted on Dec 17 2009, 09:33 PM
Burning... consuming... tomato.. tomato
If there is no oil leaking out of the engine, its consuming or burning it.
Its either left on the cilinder walls (= supposed to happed btw) and burned during combustion or sucked into the intake via the PCV and burned.
Some oils evaporate a bit more than others (NOACK rating) so that could make a small difference too.
Early F20's are known to use oil but not all of them do.
Using oil does not have an affect on performance.
It's not a problem and it's not causing a problem.
As long as you keep the oil level between the upper & lower limit its going to be allright.
It will make the exhaust tips black.
Oil consumption alone: no.
If you get lots of blue smoke going from throttle to no trottle to throttle, if the compression / leakdown values are low and unequal, if the car has no service record, then you should think twice IMO.
Its not bad.(see #3).
It makes you check & add oil on a regular basis.
That's it.
If the engine is losing oil you have a leak and that should be fixed.
If the oil level drops from driving: normal.
See #3 and #4.
Burning... consuming... tomato.. tomato
If there is no oil leaking out of the engine, its consuming or burning it.
Its either left on the cilinder walls (= supposed to happed btw) and burned during combustion or sucked into the intake via the PCV and burned.
Some oils evaporate a bit more than others (NOACK rating) so that could make a small difference too.
Early F20's are known to use oil but not all of them do.
Using oil does not have an affect on performance.
It's not a problem and it's not causing a problem.
As long as you keep the oil level between the upper & lower limit its going to be allright.
It will make the exhaust tips black.
Oil consumption alone: no.
If you get lots of blue smoke going from throttle to no trottle to throttle, if the compression / leakdown values are low and unequal, if the car has no service record, then you should think twice IMO.
Its not bad.(see #3).
It makes you check & add oil on a regular basis.
That's it.
If the engine is losing oil you have a leak and that should be fixed.
If the oil level drops from driving: normal.
See #3 and #4.
2. If I find one that doesn't consume oil does that mean as long as I take care of it from then on it won't eventually?
3. Is it better to go for a 2002 or 2003 to have less of an issue?
4. How do you tell when looking at used s2000's if it burns or consumes?
12-17-2009, 12:35 PM
#28
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Oil consumption and burning oil are the same thing. Every engine is going to burn a small amount of oil. Engines like the F20C with oil squirters and a 9k rpm redline are going to consume more oil than others just as a matter of normal operation. The oil burned as a cause of normal design/operation/consideration should be considered as the negligible portion. Anything beyond that much is worth noting. It's a matter of HOW MUCH the car burns beyond the negligble.
Burning some oil may or may not really affect performance. Burning a lot of oil (visible smoke, smells like oil, etc) is a bad sign. Move on to another car.
My AP1 has 35k on it. It's never burned any excessive oil. Even with tracking, it burns about 1 or so quarts between changes. Sometimes a bit more depending on how long the sessions go and how hot the oil gets.
When you start test driving a car, look at how dirty the oil is to see how long it's been in there. Then look at the oil level to compare. If the oil is slightly dirty (fairly new looking) and low...it might be a sign that the car is burning oil quickly.
Even with a little bit of abnormal oil consumption (beyond acceptable), the engine should last a long time if you put on your man pants and keep the oil full.
The oil re-fill/check is more of an annoyance than it is a problem with the car unless the consumption is excessive.
"Excessive" is very difficult to define. It depends on driving habits, type of oil used, etc. etc. etc.
A compression test may or may not tell you if the car is burning oil. Oil can sneak past valve seals. Thin oil can sneak past well sealed rings. Excessive crank case temps will make oil burn in the crank case instead of through the cylinders.
Basically...keep your eyes peeled for smoke and try to sniff for a burning oil smell after you get on it. If it smells EXCESSIVELY like smoke or if you see a bunch of white/blue smoke, the car is probably not worth buying.
This is very difficult to explain on the interwebz. You're going to have to test drive a car with a general knowledge of what a car that burns oil feels/smells/looks like.
Black sooty buildup on the rear bumper over the exhaust tips is another bad sign. Black soot on the tips may either mean burning a lot of oil, running rich, or neglecting to clean them. It may or may not tell you anything. The bumper soot is a bad sign, though.
Some oils also seem to be more conducive to burning. My EM1 burned Mobil1...until I came to my senses and just started putting dinosaur lube back in it. Lots of Honda guys complain about burning Mobil1. My S2000 doesn't burn any one oil in particular....ehhh...except maybe Castrol Syntec. It seemed to go through that a little bit faster...but the track sessions I ran were a little more brutal on syntec...so I dunno how to gauge that.
Burning some oil may or may not really affect performance. Burning a lot of oil (visible smoke, smells like oil, etc) is a bad sign. Move on to another car.
My AP1 has 35k on it. It's never burned any excessive oil. Even with tracking, it burns about 1 or so quarts between changes. Sometimes a bit more depending on how long the sessions go and how hot the oil gets.
When you start test driving a car, look at how dirty the oil is to see how long it's been in there. Then look at the oil level to compare. If the oil is slightly dirty (fairly new looking) and low...it might be a sign that the car is burning oil quickly.
Even with a little bit of abnormal oil consumption (beyond acceptable), the engine should last a long time if you put on your man pants and keep the oil full.
The oil re-fill/check is more of an annoyance than it is a problem with the car unless the consumption is excessive.
"Excessive" is very difficult to define. It depends on driving habits, type of oil used, etc. etc. etc.
A compression test may or may not tell you if the car is burning oil. Oil can sneak past valve seals. Thin oil can sneak past well sealed rings. Excessive crank case temps will make oil burn in the crank case instead of through the cylinders.
Basically...keep your eyes peeled for smoke and try to sniff for a burning oil smell after you get on it. If it smells EXCESSIVELY like smoke or if you see a bunch of white/blue smoke, the car is probably not worth buying.
This is very difficult to explain on the interwebz. You're going to have to test drive a car with a general knowledge of what a car that burns oil feels/smells/looks like.
Black sooty buildup on the rear bumper over the exhaust tips is another bad sign. Black soot on the tips may either mean burning a lot of oil, running rich, or neglecting to clean them. It may or may not tell you anything. The bumper soot is a bad sign, though.
Some oils also seem to be more conducive to burning. My EM1 burned Mobil1...until I came to my senses and just started putting dinosaur lube back in it. Lots of Honda guys complain about burning Mobil1. My S2000 doesn't burn any one oil in particular....ehhh...except maybe Castrol Syntec. It seemed to go through that a little bit faster...but the track sessions I ran were a little more brutal on syntec...so I dunno how to gauge that.
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