fiv0

My car has had a long history of engine problems. At 14.7k miles the piston shattered. I was going just north of 6000 RPM at the time in second gear. The engine seized up immediately as a result and had to be towed to the dealer. The engine was replaced under warranty no questions asked. The first time the new engine was started, debris from the first piston stuck in the intake manifold was sucked through the second engine. After several thousand uneventful miles of restrained driving, problems returned in the form of a sharp jerkiness across the mid-range of the power band. The problem was difficult to reproduce which made for several frustrating additional trips to the dealer. Finally, I noticed that the problem was directly related to engine heat, and it became so severe on a longer drive that I was getting approximately 20 miles on a tank of gas and the seat belts locked from the severe jerkiness. At this point, the dealer determined that the Cat converter was bad and replaced the oxygen sensor as a precautionary measure as well. There was also a detached wire on the engine, that the dealer determined to be for VTEC engagement, but it's reattachment did not resolve the problem. The wire mesh of the Cat contained metal filings similar to those sucked through the second engine. No alarms went off except for me. The problem appeared to be resolved but a few weeks later, the jerkiness returned, now feeling more like the VTEC was not engaging at all, or it was hesitating. Again, difficult to reproduce, more frustrating trips to the dealer did not yield any better reults until the valves were adjusted. Another period of normal commute driving (~10 miles roundtrip) and one day the idle seemed rough, and the engine was making a clicking noise. When the car warmed up, the roughness was less noticeable. Everything functioned normally on my way to work, but on the way home car almost stalled twice, engine light goes on, and the engine started making a clicking sound. Back to the dealer slowly the next day and the code pulled up is that the 1st piston is continually misfiring in addition to an obvious fuel leak around the fuel dampener. Dealer takes a look and finds the spark plug has "disintegrated" . It is determined that the only way the event occured is that the piston made contact with the spark plug and only happens when the engine is overeved on downshift. As it is, I have never overeved on downshift and only hit the rev limiter once on the first engine during acceleration. The dealer is refusing warranty coverage for this damage and has indicated for any further investigation and repair, the cost will be out of pocket. So, I'm reaching out to the Honda S2000 community to find out if anyone else has experienced these and other problems with warranty coverage or driveability problems. There are no modifications made to the engine or exhaust system of the car. It is an 00 with less than 20,000 miles on it. The new engine has about 5,000 miles on it. I'm seeking technical background for any of the problems I've run in to since I'm not much of a gearhead. I'm also seeking driveability problems and warranty work folks have had done on their engine and exhaust. Finally, I'm seeking information on what the process is to have these kinds of things resolved, whether it be arbitration, or legal action under the lemon law. Engine problems aside, my S2000 is the most enjoyable car I've ever owned, but I do find it somewhat ironic that I chose it over other cars in the same class because of Honda reliability I've experienced in the past.

Thanks for all the help and support in what has turned in to a very difficult and unpleasant situation.

-DD

Squeezer

look in your owners manual on the backpage, has the #'s and contacts for honda of america. call the district service manager for your area.

ccarnel

Ummm sounds like more dealer bullshit to me. Have you read concering problems with the spark plugs disentigrating... falling back down into the block and causing the engine to fail, hell even honda has a recall for this specific problem due to the plugs not being torqued to the proper specifications from the factory.

The dealer is full of crap if they state that the piston will contact the spark plug on an overrev.... only if it were to stretch the connecting rod or if the head of the piston were to become detached from the conrod. Correct me if im wrong but most overrev failures occur because the increased rpm's cause the cams to float a valve (because the inertia imparted to the valve cannot be overcome by the spring rate of the valve spring). Since it is an interference engine the valve makes contact with the piston because it has not been retracted quickly enough by the spring resulting in severe damge etc... etc..
I'm willing to bet a lot of money that your problem is related to the fact that the sparkplug was not torqued properly by the dealership (and they don't want to take responsibility)

If i'm not mistaken if they deny warranty coverage they have to provide proof that the problem was caused by user error or otherwise. I would suggest finding someone who is a mechanical engineer or the like and nailing their ass.

Look up sparkplug recall there should be plenty of threads on it. Also email or pm greg stevens on www.s2kca.com (he is the president) and ask him about his engine failure... it was due to the plug not being properly torqued.

Good luck fighting these idiots... Don't ever trust a dealership (99.0 percent of the time atleast) because the only thing they care about is the bottom line, and they will feed you any amount of bs they think they can get away with. Knowledge is key here because they generally have very little of it.

MacGyver

Ignoring all of the "what if" scenarios that everyone else has mentioned, what about the second engine? You said there were some pieces from the first engine that were not properly removed when they put the second engine in place, which were then sucked into and through the second engine. I would say that's a pretty clear case of the dealership screwing up, and any issues that could be related to potential damage from metal pieces flying through your new engine should be resolved (and paid for) by them.

ccarnel

Sorry about the what if ?? (im guessing this was aimed at me)

He still needs to address the first excuse/bull that the dealership handed him by proving physically that what happened was impossible due to overrev and then back with concurring evidence of improper spark plug torque/or bits of pieces of last blown engine being sucked through the new engine. Without disproving their first claim they will keep handing him the same crap... Also without proper documentation of the bits and pieces of the last engine being present in the intake it might be hard to actually prove that the pieces caused the damage (especially if the dealership can deny the pieces were there in the first place)

What proof do you have presently of bits from the last engine damaging the present one. Did the dealership openly admit this or did you find it on your own? Is there any documentation of these findings... metal bits in catalytic converter/ fragments in the intake?

dhess

Hi DivineDesign,

Sorry to hear about your problems. I have been dealing with the same shit for the past 4 months. My engine ble up after # 2 conrod failed. Honda Australia's response: "You overreved the engine." Typical. Fvcking morons.

The day before it let go I called the dealership explaining to them that I could hear a ticking noise from the engine. They told me to bring the car in the following day. It blew up on the way in. Unlike engine overrev failures my engine had no valve train damage whatsoever.

I am currently taking legal action.

Don't get me wrong like you I love the car but hate the way Honda treats its loyal customers.

I think its time that the numerous owners that have been fvcked up the ass by their local division of Honda, group together and take some action on an international level.

chris_barry

Has the dealer removed the head from the engine? The sparkplug is a long way from the piston, in fact, even if the piston was detached from the rod, it would stop against the head before contacting the spark plug.

If the plug is damaged it would be from things bouncing around inside the combustion chamber. It could be a detached spark plug nose, valve heads, screws from the throttle plate or even pieces of a disintergrating piston.

Ask the dealer to stop speculating and open the engine to find out what is wrong. It sounds like whatever went wrong has been deteriorating for some time and should have been picked up earlier. I dont think it will be pretty inside the engine.
Good luck

fiv0

Thanks for all of the excellent advice and detailed scenarios. I will find out more tomorrow when I talk with the local service manager, and the mechanic who has worked on the car numberous times. I don't have any way to tell that the third engine has suffered the same fate as the second. However, there is evidence that the pieces were further downstream. I would have expected those pieces to have been cleaned out when the third engine was installed (I know that's a lot to expect). The spark plug recall was done on my car and it is entirely possible they were not torqued correctly. I'll follow up with Greg and see what details he might be able to provide me. I was looking at the service manual and was suprised to find the the damage could be caused by the complete opposite problem Honda is claiming. It details that fouled plugs may be caused by: excessive idling/low speed running. Also, it states that burned out or worn electrodes (on the spark plug) may be caused by: Loose spark plug. I'm going to bring my camera in and shoot a few shots while they have the cylinder head cover removed. If the spark plug is bouncing around in the cylinder, can it be fixed by honing the cylinder or will the block have to be removed and the entire thing bored out? As one recommandation to all other (non-gearhead) S2000 owners out there: if you here any clicking while the engine is at idle, stop, load it on a flatbed, and take it in to the shop. I'm fairly certain that additional damage was done to my car between the time the engine light illuminaged and I was able to get it to the dealership. Also, FYI, prior to my piston blowing out on the first engine, there was no light, no warning, and now strange behavior. It made kind of a 'pop' sound that was barely audible over the normal engine noise, and that was it.

slick rick

To all ya all who think that Honda or it's local affiliates only think about the bottom line, well you couldn't be more wrong! I happen to work for some time and some years ago worked as a service manager. I will tell you that anybody who is so ignorant that they think that, should downgrade to a civic. Honda is very concerned about cust. satisfaction (CSI) and owner loyalty!
What happens most of the time is that when you are dealing with a very specific vehicle and even though in most respects it's no different than any other Honda model, you (us) as mostly agressive drivers along with a very agressive car, tend to generat problems that the Service dept. doesn't always understand. They maybe able to understand a particular failure, but for common people to rationalize, quantify and use deductive reasoning like us racer's do -- that may be a bit of a far stretch. As lame as it is for our babies to brake down it is also up to the owner to communicate effectively with the dealer and make sense to them! Most of the time the customer drops off the car, complaining that _______ is broken and walks off.
Eliminate all assumptions, make sure that when you're talking to a service advisor that he is understanding, not just hearing you, and make sure you have a warranty that covers repairs!

dhess

Slick Rick,

What you have said is fair enough.

Unfortunately it does not apply to my case at all.

The employees I have been dealing with have from day one jumped to conclusions and refused to believe let alone listen to what I have had to say.

After having purchased 2 s2000's (an $80,000 car in Australia) They clearly do not value me as a customer.

I intend to pursue this matter legally as far as need be and to generate as much negative publicity as is required to make the assholes see the error in their ways.