HELP! Need advice from people with engine failures or experienced mechanics.
11-11-2002, 09:50 AM
#41
Originally posted by billman250
Man this is the saddest shit i have ever seen. Dhess i really feel for you and all the others. i"ll post this again just to be clear: if you have engine troubles, even if it blows up, be sure to bring the oil up to the full mark before the dealer sees it. this is a bulls!@# way of getting out of warrantee claims on an engine that definitely, in my opinion, has a major design flaw. I have a deposit on an 03, and before i lay down 35 grand of hard earned money on a car that i'm loosing alot of faith in, i'm going to get whatever info i can on this issue from the dealer. I know it's a big cover up, but i know the guys and hopefully i can assist some of u guys.
Man this is the saddest shit i have ever seen. Dhess i really feel for you and all the others. i"ll post this again just to be clear: if you have engine troubles, even if it blows up, be sure to bring the oil up to the full mark before the dealer sees it. this is a bulls!@# way of getting out of warrantee claims on an engine that definitely, in my opinion, has a major design flaw. I have a deposit on an 03, and before i lay down 35 grand of hard earned money on a car that i'm loosing alot of faith in, i'm going to get whatever info i can on this issue from the dealer. I know it's a big cover up, but i know the guys and hopefully i can assist some of u guys.
11-11-2002, 01:41 PM
#42
Originally posted by dhess
Thanks for your continued support guys.
You have no idea how much this mean to me.
At times I think that I wouldn't be able to make it through without your support.
Thanks for your continued support guys.
You have no idea how much this mean to me.
At times I think that I wouldn't be able to make it through without your support.
11-11-2002, 01:44 PM
#43
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david1: Sorry mate, I don't even know. I'm not an S2k expert, that was only my 2nd post. You'll have to ask the regulars!
For me, I only viewed one (02), and took one for a test drive. The rest I only gathered in one day of reading here.
Could be not just Honda's reps playing down the matter, no doubt a few owners of the earlier models feel so bad they dont wanna admit their cars are duffers. (That they are not, in fact.)
My opinon overall of the car is very good, so long as bores are seen to be good and it has new bolts and good oil flow it wouldn't put me off buying one. Lack of engine oil is easily fixed. Damage caused by that, not so easy - worst possible engine damage. May as well pour grit in the oil pan. Did you ever hear any other production car eating pistons at 500 miles? (On this scale of supposed to be high-performance, precision, state of the art, high tolerance, expert, world-class, Japanese engineering prowess, this is worse than a shock,.)
9krpm - high technology - no. Nice engine but not high technology. Nice design. Squirting oil at a piston is not new technology.
The engine seems to run beautifully on these cars, shame it spoiled by a stupid manufacturing negligence both in design and maintainance.
Doesn't it remind you of the old Schishira Honda (sorry about his first name can't remember that) he started building pistons with rings but they kept blowing off the pistons and seizing up.
Shame for Honda - their special baby show-off car for the year 2000, pride of the roadsters, 9krpm, even more fun than the boxster, flagship of range, but blows pistons at 500 miles because of 8 tiny holes for oil not big enough in 4 bolts in the oil pan!
This shows one thing that: Honda DID NOT TEST THIS CAR.
If they took this car to 150 for one hour on one flat road, melted pistons- they didn't test it.
So much for the great NSX engineering factory and F1 pedigree.
Still a good car but after 100k miles who expects that engine is still running good?
Opinion: Early models driven anywhere fast and flat during the pre-recall stage will suffer premature piston/bore failure. Elsewhere on s2ki I read a suggestion saying like "well they raced them at the xxxx circuit for 24 days without stopping and the engines never exploded so there is no evidence of fault" that would explain all the oil sploshing around the crank and pistons therefore it kept the pistons cooler. Or perhaps they were just the lucky ones with the right conditions under which the lack of oil did not cause failure.
re. replacing the short block (here in UK we call that the "block" ie. everything beneath the Head Gasket) and theories of collateral damage to the valve guides: I ain't a metallurgist but if your cylinders get so hot the pistons melt your whole engine's life has been comprimised and a new engine should be the only solution for this.
As I said I am no expert have only driven one s2k but stripped enough oil-starved engines to know what happens when things stop slipping and start grinding goodbye engine and all parts within.
For me, I only viewed one (02), and took one for a test drive. The rest I only gathered in one day of reading here.
Could be not just Honda's reps playing down the matter, no doubt a few owners of the earlier models feel so bad they dont wanna admit their cars are duffers. (That they are not, in fact.)
My opinon overall of the car is very good, so long as bores are seen to be good and it has new bolts and good oil flow it wouldn't put me off buying one. Lack of engine oil is easily fixed. Damage caused by that, not so easy - worst possible engine damage. May as well pour grit in the oil pan. Did you ever hear any other production car eating pistons at 500 miles? (On this scale of supposed to be high-performance, precision, state of the art, high tolerance, expert, world-class, Japanese engineering prowess, this is worse than a shock,.)
9krpm - high technology - no. Nice engine but not high technology. Nice design. Squirting oil at a piston is not new technology.
The engine seems to run beautifully on these cars, shame it spoiled by a stupid manufacturing negligence both in design and maintainance.
Doesn't it remind you of the old Schishira Honda (sorry about his first name can't remember that) he started building pistons with rings but they kept blowing off the pistons and seizing up.
Shame for Honda - their special baby show-off car for the year 2000, pride of the roadsters, 9krpm, even more fun than the boxster, flagship of range, but blows pistons at 500 miles because of 8 tiny holes for oil not big enough in 4 bolts in the oil pan!
This shows one thing that: Honda DID NOT TEST THIS CAR.
If they took this car to 150 for one hour on one flat road, melted pistons- they didn't test it.
So much for the great NSX engineering factory and F1 pedigree.
Still a good car but after 100k miles who expects that engine is still running good?
Opinion: Early models driven anywhere fast and flat during the pre-recall stage will suffer premature piston/bore failure. Elsewhere on s2ki I read a suggestion saying like "well they raced them at the xxxx circuit for 24 days without stopping and the engines never exploded so there is no evidence of fault" that would explain all the oil sploshing around the crank and pistons therefore it kept the pistons cooler. Or perhaps they were just the lucky ones with the right conditions under which the lack of oil did not cause failure.
re. replacing the short block (here in UK we call that the "block" ie. everything beneath the Head Gasket) and theories of collateral damage to the valve guides: I ain't a metallurgist but if your cylinders get so hot the pistons melt your whole engine's life has been comprimised and a new engine should be the only solution for this.
As I said I am no expert have only driven one s2k but stripped enough oil-starved engines to know what happens when things stop slipping and start grinding
goodbye engine and all parts within.
11-12-2002, 09:30 AM
#45
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Originally posted by Ti336e
152 members of S2KI.COM, the World's largest Internet club devoted to Honda's flagship S2000 roadster, have obtained independent evidence that the Honda F20C engine is liable to self-destruct at so little as 500 miles. Honda declined to comment but in an undisclosed settlement has agreed to supply all the club's members with a stockpile of new engines and banjo bolts
152 members of S2KI.COM, the World's largest Internet club devoted to Honda's flagship S2000 roadster, have obtained independent evidence that the Honda F20C engine is liable to self-destruct at so little as 500 miles. Honda declined to comment but in an undisclosed settlement has agreed to supply all the club's members with a stockpile of new engines and banjo bolts
Yes, there is an oil flow problem that may result in overheat during certain situations and under certain conditions. This problem is not as bad as portrayed in the above paragraph.
However, I believe the excuse that we don't do high speed runs here in North America is the biggest BS I have heard. We all bought a sports car that is supposed to perform a certain way and last. We all payed +- the same amount all over the world, we are all entitled to the same service.
I believe not fixing the problem throughout the world is bad logic, what's next, Honda discovers that an interior part of the heating system inside of the car is catching fire under certain conditions. Under the "US vs Europe driving style" logic, they decide to only replace the part in countries where it's cold and neglect the countries that are always warm based on the fact that they rarely or never use their heaters!!!!!!!!!!
Fictional situation but nonethless, it puts the stupidity of the Europe vs US driving style argument into perspective.
Shame on Honda, I am getting turned off by AHMs stupidity every day that passes by.
11-12-2002, 05:41 PM
#46
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sev
[B]
...
However, I believe the excuse that we don't do high speed runs here in North America is the biggest BS I have heard. ... it puts the stupidity of the Europe vs US driving style argument into perspective.
...
[B]
...
However, I believe the excuse that we don't do high speed runs here in North America is the biggest BS I have heard. ... it puts the stupidity of the Europe vs US driving style argument into perspective.
...
11-12-2002, 06:22 PM
#47
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luis
[B]
Sorry for lecturing... but why do you guys have to epithet everything with "stupid this" and "bullsh1t that"?
I for one know that if an engine failure is triggered by continuous driving at speeds over 200km/h, you will find an incidence in Europe several orders of magnitude higher than in the states. Should I say that defending the opposite is moronic, or downright ignorant, or should I just back up my assertion with the experience of having driven over thousands of kms in each continent and leave it at that?
[B]
Sorry for lecturing... but why do you guys have to epithet everything with "stupid this" and "bullsh1t that"?
I for one know that if an engine failure is triggered by continuous driving at speeds over 200km/h, you will find an incidence in Europe several orders of magnitude higher than in the states. Should I say that defending the opposite is moronic, or downright ignorant, or should I just back up my assertion with the experience of having driven over thousands of kms in each continent and leave it at that?
11-12-2002, 06:56 PM
#48
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sev
[B]I believe not fixing the problem throughout the world is bad logic, what's next, Honda discovers that an interior part of the heating system inside of the car is catching fire under certain conditions. Under the "US vs Europe driving style" logic, they decide to only replace the part in countries where it's cold and neglect the countries that are always warm based on the fact that they rarely or never use their heaters!!!!!!!!!!
[B]I believe not fixing the problem throughout the world is bad logic, what's next, Honda discovers that an interior part of the heating system inside of the car is catching fire under certain conditions. Under the "US vs Europe driving style" logic, they decide to only replace the part in countries where it's cold and neglect the countries that are always warm based on the fact that they rarely or never use their heaters!!!!!!!!!!
11-12-2002, 07:20 PM
#49
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We can go back and forth all we want, but it probably won't change how AHM decides to handle this issue.
Let me ask this: How many reading this thread have contacted AHM asking about the recall in Europe and if we should expect to see it here? I will admit that I haven't... yet I'm still concerned and I still read all of the posts on here about engine failures, oil bolts, etc.
Why don't we all write AHM a polite letter saying that we have heard of the European recall for the oil bolts and are curious as to what treatment we will receive in America? I highly doubt they will write back and say, "Sorry, sucker, you're screwed!" so the worst case is they don't respond at all. Best case, they wake up and realize how well-informed this community of owners has become and give us some kind of message about what to expect. Even if it is a typical corporate "there is no problem" denial, I think we'd all be happier knowing where we as customers stand with AHM.
Here is the address I got from Honda's Owner Link website:
Honda Automobile Customer Service
Mail Stop 500-2N-7A
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
Let me ask this: How many reading this thread have contacted AHM asking about the recall in Europe and if we should expect to see it here? I will admit that I haven't... yet I'm still concerned and I still read all of the posts on here about engine failures, oil bolts, etc.
Why don't we all write AHM a polite letter saying that we have heard of the European recall for the oil bolts and are curious as to what treatment we will receive in America? I highly doubt they will write back and say, "Sorry, sucker, you're screwed!" so the worst case is they don't respond at all. Best case, they wake up and realize how well-informed this community of owners has become and give us some kind of message about what to expect. Even if it is a typical corporate "there is no problem" denial, I think we'd all be happier knowing where we as customers stand with AHM.
Here is the address I got from Honda's Owner Link website:
Honda Automobile Customer Service
Mail Stop 500-2N-7A
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
11-13-2002, 03:56 PM
#50
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Originally posted by Sev
Although I agree that Honda is making a mistake here and they should replace the parts on all models, I believe that paragraph is a little too exagerated.
Yes, there is an oil flow problem that may result in overheat during certain situations and under certain conditions. This problem is not as bad as portrayed in the above paragraph.
Although I agree that Honda is making a mistake here and they should replace the parts on all models, I believe that paragraph is a little too exagerated.
Yes, there is an oil flow problem that may result in overheat during certain situations and under certain conditions. This problem is not as bad as portrayed in the above paragraph.
There are approx 25 documented horrific engine failures on this board.
The problem is even worse than I portrayed in my paragraph. It's worse than bad, it couldn't be exaggerated. (the figure of 152 was a joke BTW, just the headline example. Would bet more than 152 engines have died) This brand new top of range roadster is melting pistons because nobody at Honda bothered to lubricate it properly.
Look round all those threads and pictures of chewed bores. It isn't a case that the odd engine has a fit and nicely, nicely, with plenty of warning wears out. These are new or nearly-new engines seizing up, cars on sale with worn out bores at 1000 miles, drinking oil because the piston rings can't seal in the worn bores. This is 1930's reliablity on the 'flagship 2000' model.