Are Headers worth the $????
02-03-2004, 11:04 PM
#41
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Road Rage
As an interested outsider (I have no bolt ons), these dyno results are fascinating - one certainly can conclude that there is not much to be gained from any of these bolts ons, and the results could be overlayed by a particularly good running stocker. I'd be willing to bet that a good dyno-tune would yield more - too bad the Honda engine management system is so tuner unfriendly - my SVT Cobra came pig rich from the factory, and a safe leanout yielded gobs more power, on the order of 25 rwhp.
As an interested outsider (I have no bolt ons), these dyno results are fascinating - one certainly can conclude that there is not much to be gained from any of these bolts ons, and the results could be overlayed by a particularly good running stocker. I'd be willing to bet that a good dyno-tune would yield more - too bad the Honda engine management system is so tuner unfriendly - my SVT Cobra came pig rich from the factory, and a safe leanout yielded gobs more power, on the order of 25 rwhp.
02-03-2004, 11:34 PM
#42
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Did anyone else notice how rich the S2000's were running, especially after 8k? Some AFRs dipping into the 10.xx. Shouldn't we be able to tune for, say, 13.5 across the board in N/A form? That might yield more power. Just a thought.
02-04-2004, 12:06 AM
#43
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A friend of mines runs a few Mugen parts (and a few others) to include the CAI, N1 ECU, and headers. Before he decided to get the 4.44 gears, the car had a surprising amount of midrange power, which made it more comfortable to drive on the streets.
I think UL had a Mugen header on his car and he said the midrange was a lot stronger but he found that it took a horse or two off the top. Whether or not the Mugen header is worth the cash is totally up to you. Back then, the Toda wasn't available and the Mugen was the only one that I could find that actually improved on the OEM part.
The Mugen part is a beautiful piece which included a very nice heat shield... IMO, you get what you pay for. If you do plan to invest in the Mugen header, you won't regret it. If Uncle Sam would let me keep more of my money from each paycheck, I'd get the Mugen, since it'd make more sense for my driving application. Since $ is a major concern for me, the Toda sounds like a very realistic investment.
I think UL had a Mugen header on his car and he said the midrange was a lot stronger but he found that it took a horse or two off the top. Whether or not the Mugen header is worth the cash is totally up to you. Back then, the Toda wasn't available and the Mugen was the only one that I could find that actually improved on the OEM part.
The Mugen part is a beautiful piece which included a very nice heat shield... IMO, you get what you pay for. If you do plan to invest in the Mugen header, you won't regret it. If Uncle Sam would let me keep more of my money from each paycheck, I'd get the Mugen, since it'd make more sense for my driving application. Since $ is a major concern for me, the Toda sounds like a very realistic investment.
02-04-2004, 02:37 AM
#44
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If you're looking for a kick in the pants change of acceleration, you will be disappointed. You won't feel the difference with just a swap of a header, though you will probably hear a difference. If you decide to get one, stick to the ones that have shown an improvement over stock with independent dynos. I recommend Toda or Mugen in that order (I'm running Mugen).
02-04-2004, 11:26 AM
#48
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I am going to but in here. I spent over two months before buying my S2000. There is about 15hp on average to be seen with a good I/H/E/ combo and some more usually with a VAFC if pre 02. I have not seen in my search much gains with a VAFC on an 02-03 model. Mine is an 02. There have been exceptions to no gains and exceptions to a lot of gains. FI will cost almost the same as a good I/H/E system and net way more gains. The H/E will help with the power when adding Supercharged FI if purchased first. I enjoyed the dynos of the assorted s2000 cars but there was no data to support a gain or not with no prior sameday testing without the parts. Maybe I missed something but I don't think so.
02-04-2004, 12:07 PM
#49
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A good intake/header/exhaust shouldn't cost much more than about $2000. Get a Toda header ($1250), Spugen exhaust ($500-600) and an AEM V2 ($250 street price). All are proven to work. If you want more power, pick up a TB ($200-$400), a test pipe ($100-$200) and a VAFC ($300). With these very mods, gains of up to 20-25 peak hp are available. Gains in some places on the curve can exceed 30 hp.
Choose a Mugen ECU and the gains get a little bigger. AEM EMS and they go a little bigger still. But if you want to keep your car normally aspirated and pick up a nice bit of speed, you don't have to spend anywhere near what an FI kit costs - which is as it should be. More hp = more $$$
Choose a Mugen ECU and the gains get a little bigger. AEM EMS and they go a little bigger still. But if you want to keep your car normally aspirated and pick up a nice bit of speed, you don't have to spend anywhere near what an FI kit costs - which is as it should be. More hp = more $$$
02-04-2004, 12:29 PM
#50
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O.K., so let's add all that up...
Toda.........$1250
Spugen.....$600
AEM V2.....$250
TB.............$400
Test pipe..$200
VAFC 2......$300 (not including tuning, but I know you charge $150 UL)
Total......$3000
So, you can have an extra 30hp NA or a used S/C (there are plenty in that price range) with an extra 100hp for $3k. Hmmmm, I'll take the S/C....
Toda.........$1250
Spugen.....$600
AEM V2.....$250
TB.............$400
Test pipe..$200
VAFC 2......$300 (not including tuning, but I know you charge $150 UL)
Total......$3000
So, you can have an extra 30hp NA or a used S/C (there are plenty in that price range) with an extra 100hp for $3k. Hmmmm, I'll take the S/C....