Which Headers produce the most PEAK power?
07-18-2002, 09:13 AM
#11
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Rich, please clarify this for me as i thought that Spoons original design was a 4 - 1 header. After a lot of customers in the US market complained about no mid range gain, they developed a 4 2 1 design to better accomodate the market.
All in all, the Spoon header IS magnificent. I installed mine about a month ago and have been very very impressed.
All in all, the Spoon header IS magnificent. I installed mine about a month ago and have been very very impressed.
07-18-2002, 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by mingster
maybe my eyes are going bad, but did i read someone say spoon made 2 header designs? when did spoon make two different exhaust manifold (header) for the S?! i sell the damn things for the past 2 and half years and i've never heard of that, where do you get these info?!
also on the comptech: that long 4 to 2, and the very short "one" collector looks a lot like a 4-2 design to my eyes, it may end up being from 4 to 1, but the process of getting there doesn't look like a typical 4-1 design. just my 2 cents on that. also it looks somewhat similar to MG Racing's original header design (we're talking 2+ years old stuff when we were all struggling to figure the car out). rumor had it that type of design made good low end torque but suffered at the top. Greg Stevens was the only one who ever dynoed the header, but he never publicly disclosed the numbers nor the chart (that i'm aware of), but i haven't seen too many of them around.
spoon's header is designed for (small) peak power gain, but good post-peak power curve (the power curve doesn't drop like a stone after 8300 RPMs) for obvious reasons. i don't have the dyno charts anymore, but we (import development) were the only company that i know of who did back to back dyno testing on stock vs. spoon vs. mugen header(s) in one day. spoon's header also smoothed out the VTEC transition (improvements in the mid-range) on our charts. the chart was posted 2 years ago and was widely discussed and argued about, after i pulled the charts the web server hosting our files crashed and we lost the files. maybe someone still has it?
DC header: well...let's not talk about that.
maybe my eyes are going bad, but did i read someone say spoon made 2 header designs? when did spoon make two different exhaust manifold (header) for the S?! i sell the damn things for the past 2 and half years and i've never heard of that, where do you get these info?!
also on the comptech: that long 4 to 2, and the very short "one" collector looks a lot like a 4-2 design to my eyes, it may end up being from 4 to 1, but the process of getting there doesn't look like a typical 4-1 design. just my 2 cents on that. also it looks somewhat similar to MG Racing's original header design (we're talking 2+ years old stuff when we were all struggling to figure the car out). rumor had it that type of design made good low end torque but suffered at the top. Greg Stevens was the only one who ever dynoed the header, but he never publicly disclosed the numbers nor the chart (that i'm aware of), but i haven't seen too many of them around.
spoon's header is designed for (small) peak power gain, but good post-peak power curve (the power curve doesn't drop like a stone after 8300 RPMs) for obvious reasons. i don't have the dyno charts anymore, but we (import development) were the only company that i know of who did back to back dyno testing on stock vs. spoon vs. mugen header(s) in one day. spoon's header also smoothed out the VTEC transition (improvements in the mid-range) on our charts. the chart was posted 2 years ago and was widely discussed and argued about, after i pulled the charts the web server hosting our files crashed and we lost the files. maybe someone still has it?
DC header: well...let's not talk about that.
In any case, I haven't seen the Comptech 4-1 header in person, but unless the piping is joining up at 3 different points (4 merges to 2, then shortly after into 1) inside what externally appears to be the collector, it looks like a normal 4-1 to me. 4-2-1 is great for midrange improvements, but in principle, with a high strung engine like the F20C, a 4-1 header design would be ideal.As for people ragging on DC, I've seen pretty crappy gains from Mugen as well. Not only peak, but just overall gains as well. I haven't seen any dynos for DC, it just seems to be that people here don't like them.
07-18-2002, 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by mingster . ...DC header: well...let's not talk about that. [/B]
Thanks!
07-18-2002, 10:10 AM
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note spoon's design: it's a 4-1 with the added mid section to address the deficiencies of a pure 4-1 design (ever seen the JDM 4-1 header for the ITR?).
to clarify: spoon in the early days (even up to today) probably wouldn't care too much about US customer complaints, let alone change their design due to whatever we think here. NA is not their primary market as Mr. Spoon himself stated: and there is still no official Spoon plans for the NA market, no exclusive distributors, no service shops (Type One), just retailers who can source parts directly from spoon. i do understand that Mr. Spoon is considering something with his Japanese friends (sorry, the "none-Japanese" importers are NOT being considered from what i hear, including the dudes up north and the dudes down south, y'all know who you are), but that's still in the planning stages.
there is nothing wrong with the DC header, we did have an independent testing done by a customer and the results weren't negative, but nothing major to elate about.
(usual disclaimer): the words stated are from my perspective only, from my own highly placed sources, etc. so if you hear something different, maybe you're right, maybe i'm wrong.
to clarify: spoon in the early days (even up to today) probably wouldn't care too much about US customer complaints, let alone change their design due to whatever we think here. NA is not their primary market as Mr. Spoon himself stated: and there is still no official Spoon plans for the NA market, no exclusive distributors, no service shops (Type One), just retailers who can source parts directly from spoon. i do understand that Mr. Spoon is considering something with his Japanese friends (sorry, the "none-Japanese" importers are NOT being considered from what i hear, including the dudes up north and the dudes down south, y'all know who you are), but that's still in the planning stages.
there is nothing wrong with the DC header, we did have an independent testing done by a customer and the results weren't negative, but nothing major to elate about.
(usual disclaimer): the words stated are from my perspective only, from my own highly placed sources, etc. so if you hear something different, maybe you're right, maybe i'm wrong.
