dave.irl

hi guys,

I'm hoping someone can help me with an issue I recently created. I was removing the latches from the front of my hardtop to replace them with bespoke bracket.

Once of the screws on each latch is installed from the factory with thread lock. When removing one, I couldn't get enough torque on the screw and stripped the head, I then went to to my old trusty method off hammering in the screwdriver, which worked, but unfortunately, when taking the bolt out it just started spinning.

I though I I had just damaged the threads, so I resorted to cutting the head off the bolt with a rotary and removed the latch. When I did this I found (to my cost) that there was just a bolt lightly welded to the back of the metal which I had detached though the hammering. As soon as the head was cut off it fell in to the hard top and is somewhere between the outer and inner skin. It doesn't make any noise so I'm not worried about getting it out

Anyone ever had this happen, obviously the inner panel is spot welded on so I have no way to get access to the back to use a nut, without removing this (which I have neither the skills or toos to do). I looked at retapping one step larger but the metal is quite thin there, so I don't think I can get enough threads cut to be of use.

Any other ideas??

I can post photos tonight to make it clear

Thanks
Dave

dave.irl

I think my solution will involve epoxy, fishing wire, wire hangers and a new nut

zeroptzero

yup spent many long hours trying to correct this issue. You are right there is a threaded insert that is welded to the hardtop, when it breaks it spins with the bolt. The hardop is double walled so when it finally lets go it drops in the double wall of the metal. To get it out, have someone raise the hardtop upright on the glass end (with something soft under it to protec it), then use a flexible magnet to catch the bolt which is steel, the threads are aluminum but you will catch the bolt with a magnet. You will hear it roll around as your helper raises the hardtop on it's end and rolls it side to side front to back, fish the flexible magnet under the roof liner edge just above the glass window (there is a gap there) and you will be able to get it into the appropriate area. It will take two people and you will get the loose part out with a bit of work. Now onto fixing the hardtop. I bought my hardtop used from a member, the latch was loose when I bought it , we just figured it just needed some tightening, but once I got it home I found out that the bolt just kept spinning and would not tighten up or come out. When the threaded insert breaks it can only be removed by pushing or falling inwards, I drilled out the head of the bolt which then allowed the insert to drop into the hood.

There are these things called pop nut inserts, or something along those lines, I just call them threaded inserts. They are basically threaded inserts that drop into a hole that is appropriately sized for the insert, they get compressed with a tool from above , as they compress the metal squeezes out above and below the hardtop sheetmetal, and they clamp onto the hardtop metal. You use a new bolt to thread into the insert to hold the latches. When this happened to me I tried to helicoil old hole but that was a major pain in the arse. Between the two layers of sheetmetal (aluminum) is some loose spacer metal, the spacer metal moves around so as you try to put a tap through the hole the spacer metal gets caught onto the tap and won't let it go or work properly. So don't waste any time trying to helicoil it as the spacer will cause great frustration.

I bought some new threaded inserts from a local fastener shop, mine are made of steel and are much stronger than the orginal threads which were aluminum, I got a tool to compress the threaded inserts and they tightened up really well. I had to drill the hole to the proper size then the threaded inserts drop in. I don't know of the exact term for the inserts , I just call them threaded inserts. They are very common in the fastener industry and are available in many different threads, sizes and pitches. When I got the threaded insert out of the hardtop I took it to a fastener shop and matched up the length. I went with a steel version. I messed up the size of the hole when I was fooling around with the heli-coil attempt, so I ended up using a non-metric threaded insert, no biggie I just have a non-metric bolt which matches up fine.

Now, I found out that Honda actually sells pop nuts (threaded inserts), you can find one on the on-line catalogue at majestichonda.com under the hardtop parts listing/screen, I believe they call them pop nuts or something like that, if memory serves correct it was part number 6 or 2 under the hardtop listing. You can get Honda to order a replacement part for it and have a Honda tech install it if you aren't comfortable doing it. My Honda parts guy says they often use them when installing luggage racks and similar items and they are a very sturdy method of securing items.

I did it all by trial and error as I had no one able to help me and no one ever had this issue who could assist me. I found all the parts and tools in the aftermarket, but it is good to know they can be done through Honda as well. I went through hell before I got it figured out. My top and latch remains very secure to this day though , I don't wish this on anyone though.

I can try to locate my spare parts and take some pictures of the parts I used, and possibly some measurements if you need any further information. I purchased some extra parts just in case some other threads broke loose in the future. If you don't have the right parts or skills this can be the job from hell, once you end up understanding what is happening with the broken threads and you have the appropriate parts and tools it isn't too bad. I could probably do the repair in about 10 minutes now, but I spent weeks trying to mess with it and figure it out prior to getting the job done right. hth.

Bugsy

^ JF is spot on.
The name of the products are Rivnuts or Nutserts.
Go easy on torque.
If you must remove the headliner, the forward center clip needs to be pried loose, then the whole headliner slides forward and off.
Good luck.

dave.irl

JF - First, up thats a brilliant reply. I have the headliner and trim off, no issues there, so I will try and get the bolt out first using the magnet.

Having googled rivnuts (thanks Fasting) - It looks just what I need.

Guys - thanks again. Hopefully I can finally get this car on the road again...

zeroptzero

No problem, thanks for providig the proper name of the part Fasting

It's been a while since I fixed my hardtop, if for some reason you can't access the loose bolt from the rear lip by the glass window, then do it from the side panels near the area where the rear catchers lie. When you remove the two plastic side panels there will be some nice round access holes in the sheetmetal, if you have a helper roll the hardtop around while you use a flexible magnet extension you may be able to catch it from the side panel holes. I know I caught the loose part from either the side panel holes or from the rear area, one or the other.

chimps

my hardtop has stripped bolt holes, so i used helicoil to rethread the holes and am now using izzy's brackets...works wonderfully for me

zeroptzero

yeah stripped bolt holes would work well with a heli-coil type of repair as there is extra metal in the threaded inserts to allow a clean repair. But in our circumstances the entire threaded extension broke away from the hardtop as the welds holding the threaded inserts completely broke.

8kGoodENuff

This is great info - thank you for sharing.

Why would Honda (know for having easy cars to work on) do something like this on a part where the screws are easily accessible to tighten (potential for them vibrating loose) or could need to be replaced?!? Fine - they used a threaded insert or tack welded nut but the LOCTITE??!??!?... OMG... WHY?!?

zeroptzero

Red Loctite on top of it all, blue would have been more than adequate, but red makes it that much worse.