vtec9

There's a lot of talk going around that Mobil 1, Pennzoil, and even some Amsoil 'synthetics' are now mainly Group III, which can be listed as fully synthetic in the US. Obviously these are still quality oils and lubricate just fine, but of course, everyone is now paying Group IV prices for non-synthetic oil. Anyone know what brands still use PAO in their synthetic oils? Redline? Royal Purple? thanks.

VAD

It would be nice to see Road Rage chime in with some facts. All I can find on bitog is speculation, hearsay, and bickering. It's like Street Encounters for oil geeks.

SpitfireS

If the MSDS sheets are available.. there should be some info on what base oil is used.

I've just checked the MSDS of the oil that went in my F20C2 this afternoon, Shell Helix Ultra X 0W-30, and the description of the sustance is: a blend of polylefinen, synthetic esters and additives.
There is a remark about mineral oil too: highy refined mineral oil is only present as an additive diluter.

Looking at the product description it looks like a genuine synthetic.
I sure payed the Group IV price

Offtopic:
I've collected a sample of the used oil, Shell Helix Ultra 0W-40, as soon as the UOA is done I will share the results.

slalom44

There's lots of speculation, however the facts aren't clear. It's been Reported Mobil 1 EP is using G-III base stock, however Mobil is claiming that all Mobil 1 uses G-IV base stock. You can read more about this debate here: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...ge=0#Post749606

Amsoil has modified their formulas over the years, however they haven't gone away from PAO on their standard synthetic motor oil (ATM) or their Series 2000 (TSO) oil. However, they introduced a new XL series of oils that does use a G-III base stock. This oil is being marketed for 7500 mile OCIs.

Redline is Redline. They're sticking with their G-V Ester base stock.

I'm not sure bout Royal Purple. I think it's a PAO, but I don't know.

But does it matter that much? Even G-III synoils are great, and their performance is more important than their perceived base stock. Some people swear that Molybdenum is the holy grail of wear resistance, yet some excellent oils don't have any moly.

vtec9

No it doesn't, but I would rather not pay $4/qt for oil thats the same as $1.50 bottles. If I'm going to shell out G IV prices, I want G IV oil

ermac

I'm very skeptical of a producer who claims its product is 100% PAO or Ester. I don't know if Roadrage ever mentioned this before, but you can not have 100% PAO because it shrinks seals and you can not have 100% ester because it softens seals. There must be a decent amount of something else to form a balance. Anyway Vtec9, below are brands and basestock makeup claimed by the manufacturer:

Torco SR-1- blend of PAO and ester
Motul - primarily Ester
Klotz - primarily PAO
Liquidcosworth - blend of PAO and ester
GC - primarily PAO
Esso synthetic (sold in Canada only) - primarily PAO
Idemitsu - primarily PAO
Redline - primarily ester
Mobil 1 - primarily PAO
Elf - blend of PAO and ester (I think)
Pentosin - primarily PAO
Royal Purple Racing synthetic - primarily PAO