good street pads?
07-20-2002, 05:30 AM
#21
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Pads
The differences between them are friction levels and the temperatures that they can handle . There are a few other factors also , what temperature does pad start to work well , is coefficient of friction consistent over entire temperature range , how is the initial grab or bite of pad , how does pad release or modulate under use.
The stock pads as stated can invoke ABS . There is no reason to increase the friction level higher on the street to improve braking with stock tires .
What people that have other pads installed on their cars , are trying to say is , the pads they installed have higher friction levels and require less petal pressure to get car to stop .
This is not a improvement in braking performance .
Some people like this reduced petal effort , but in most cases when you get toward threshold braking you have a tendency to cause the ABS to kick in , because you have less ability to modulate the brake petal yourself .
Good street performance pad will have , higher temperature range , just slightly higher coefficient of friction and they will wear longer ( most street pad are designed for low noise and wear is given up for a quite pad)
I have posted over and over if some one tells you that pads or their brake system makes you feel like you are going through the windshield , don't believe that they have improved braking performance , they have just lost the ability to modulate their brake system. Yes , they have a reduced the petal effort , but there is no improvement in performance .
As was posted before "TIRES" makes the car stop , brakes (hopefully) lets the driver control the rate of the stopping . If you mash the petal or buy high friction pads you allow Mr. ABS to try to do your stopping.
brad
The differences between them are friction levels and the temperatures that they can handle . There are a few other factors also , what temperature does pad start to work well , is coefficient of friction consistent over entire temperature range , how is the initial grab or bite of pad , how does pad release or modulate under use.
The stock pads as stated can invoke ABS . There is no reason to increase the friction level higher on the street to improve braking with stock tires .
What people that have other pads installed on their cars , are trying to say is , the pads they installed have higher friction levels and require less petal pressure to get car to stop .
This is not a improvement in braking performance .
Some people like this reduced petal effort , but in most cases when you get toward threshold braking you have a tendency to cause the ABS to kick in , because you have less ability to modulate the brake petal yourself .
Good street performance pad will have , higher temperature range , just slightly higher coefficient of friction and they will wear longer ( most street pad are designed for low noise and wear is given up for a quite pad)
I have posted over and over if some one tells you that pads or their brake system makes you feel like you are going through the windshield , don't believe that they have improved braking performance , they have just lost the ability to modulate their brake system. Yes , they have a reduced the petal effort , but there is no improvement in performance .
As was posted before "TIRES" makes the car stop , brakes (hopefully) lets the driver control the rate of the stopping . If you mash the petal or buy high friction pads you allow Mr. ABS to try to do your stopping.
brad
07-20-2002, 07:44 AM
#22
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by dwb1
[B]Pads
The differences between them are friction levels and the temperatures that they can handle . There are a few other factors
[B]Pads
The differences between them are friction levels and the temperatures that they can handle . There are a few other factors
07-21-2002, 12:09 AM
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the Endless pads were quieter than the Carbotechs but the Endless pads locked a lot easier to me...
Certainly the Endless were a BIG improvement over stock though!
Chris
Certainly the Endless were a BIG improvement over stock though!
Chris
07-21-2002, 06:31 PM
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I would agree with some of what you say but,
Stock pads are designed for #1 control ( good modulation ) at a friction level that will give good braking , under normal petal pressures #2 noise #3 low dust #4 and last , long life ( most performance pads will out live stock pads 2 to 1 ) . I am talking about street performance pads , not racing pads used on the street.
Most after market pads for hot street or light race will give you a higher temperature range , and much higher friction level , what you loose is low dust , quite pad and the driver must be able to lighten the petal to remain in control . If you were to buy an after market set of pads that gave you all the things that a stock pad would , but had a higher temperature range . When you installed them you would not notice any improvement . You would not have that grab you eyes type petal . You would think you were taken advantage of . Try to find pads that give good control not grabby performance .
The high friction pads work well for auto cross where speeds are not as high ,as on the track and most situations are controlled , you can have your mind and foot on the same page.
The other thing to consider with these high friction pads is rotor wear .
The calipers on the S-2000 are designed for stock pads, and they have anti-rattle clips . These clips keep the pads from making noise in the caliper , when you release the petal the rotor ( knock back) and friction must push pad away from rotor to reduce drag on pad. With a stock pad on the street this is no problem , with a high friction pad or most racing pads this becomes a grinding pad , eating the #hit out of the rotor . This also creates heat from friction and not braking.
So when looking for a pad for hot street , find pad with same friction level or slightly higher than stock , work great cold ,has higher temperature range , low noise and last low dust. As you move to performance pads dust and noise are the only two things that you should have to put up with , you should be able to find a pad that fits the other categories.
brad
Stock pads are designed for #1 control ( good modulation ) at a friction level that will give good braking , under normal petal pressures #2 noise #3 low dust #4 and last , long life ( most performance pads will out live stock pads 2 to 1 ) . I am talking about street performance pads , not racing pads used on the street.
Most after market pads for hot street or light race will give you a higher temperature range , and much higher friction level , what you loose is low dust , quite pad and the driver must be able to lighten the petal to remain in control . If you were to buy an after market set of pads that gave you all the things that a stock pad would , but had a higher temperature range . When you installed them you would not notice any improvement . You would not have that grab you eyes type petal . You would think you were taken advantage of . Try to find pads that give good control not grabby performance .
The high friction pads work well for auto cross where speeds are not as high ,as on the track and most situations are controlled , you can have your mind and foot on the same page.
The other thing to consider with these high friction pads is rotor wear .
The calipers on the S-2000 are designed for stock pads, and they have anti-rattle clips . These clips keep the pads from making noise in the caliper , when you release the petal the rotor ( knock back) and friction must push pad away from rotor to reduce drag on pad. With a stock pad on the street this is no problem , with a high friction pad or most racing pads this becomes a grinding pad , eating the #hit out of the rotor . This also creates heat from friction and not braking.
So when looking for a pad for hot street , find pad with same friction level or slightly higher than stock , work great cold ,has higher temperature range , low noise and last low dust. As you move to performance pads dust and noise are the only two things that you should have to put up with , you should be able to find a pad that fits the other categories.
brad
07-21-2002, 06:38 PM
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well you guys can argue until you're blue in the face. My stock pads were fading and causing what I thought to be a warped rotor feel in the pedal. I was told straight up that the stock S2000 rotors are great and no need to upgrade. I was told to switch to Carbotech pads and ATE super blue. I run stock wheels on S-03's. I have made that switch and the car under full braking makes my ears pop and makes me want to puke. No joke. I know for a fact that my stock pads/fluid never EVER did that, and I was running the same tires/wheels. I am not astute on friction levels and all that gee-whiz jargon you have.. I really dont care, because my car will simply outbrake anything I have ever driven to include my skyline and 300. I think for less than $200 out the door I have the best street brake setup I've ever seen.
I mean no offense to anyone, just silly to sit there and try to "tech" me death. If you dont believe, too bad because the shit works. Period.
Chris
I mean no offense to anyone, just silly to sit there and try to "tech" me death. If you dont believe, too bad because the shit works. Period.
Chris
07-21-2002, 09:00 PM
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Chris,
I haven't used the Carbotech pads, but from what I hear they are 'grabby' when cold, like on the street. So yes, you have quick stopping, but it could be hard to stop smoothly. You could probably stop almost as fast (on the street) with the stock pads if you pushed harder on the brake pedal.
The Carbotech pads and Ate SuperBlue fluid will be a big improvement on the track, where the stock stuff will fade due to the heat.
Does that make sense? I tried for low-tech
Ted
I haven't used the Carbotech pads, but from what I hear they are 'grabby' when cold, like on the street. So yes, you have quick stopping, but it could be hard to stop smoothly. You could probably stop almost as fast (on the street) with the stock pads if you pushed harder on the brake pedal.
The Carbotech pads and Ate SuperBlue fluid will be a big improvement on the track, where the stock stuff will fade due to the heat.
Does that make sense? I tried for low-tech
Ted
07-21-2002, 09:52 PM
#30
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Originally posted by Hams2000
well you guys can argue until you're blue in the face. My stock pads were fading and causing what I thought to be a warped rotor feel in the pedal. I was told straight up that the stock S2000 rotors are great and no need to upgrade. I was told to switch to Carbotech pads and ATE super blue. I run stock wheels on S-03's. I have made that switch and the car under full braking makes my ears pop and makes me want to puke. No joke. I know for a fact that my stock pads/fluid never EVER did that, and I was running the same tires/wheels. I am not astute on friction levels and all that gee-whiz jargon you have.. I really dont care, because my car will simply outbrake anything I have ever driven to include my skyline and 300. I think for less than $200 out the door I have the best street brake setup I've ever seen.
I mean no offense to anyone, just silly to sit there and try to "tech" me death. If you dont believe, too bad because the shit works. Period.
Chris
well you guys can argue until you're blue in the face. My stock pads were fading and causing what I thought to be a warped rotor feel in the pedal. I was told straight up that the stock S2000 rotors are great and no need to upgrade. I was told to switch to Carbotech pads and ATE super blue. I run stock wheels on S-03's. I have made that switch and the car under full braking makes my ears pop and makes me want to puke. No joke. I know for a fact that my stock pads/fluid never EVER did that, and I was running the same tires/wheels. I am not astute on friction levels and all that gee-whiz jargon you have.. I really dont care, because my car will simply outbrake anything I have ever driven to include my skyline and 300. I think for less than $200 out the door I have the best street brake setup I've ever seen.
I mean no offense to anyone, just silly to sit there and try to "tech" me death. If you dont believe, too bad because the shit works. Period.
Chris
don't get all pissy about the gee-whiz jargon. it is not gee-whiz, nor is to impress anyone. it is just to clarify that if you can lock the brakes you are exceeding your tires...period. putting on a higher friction compound and allowing you to lock them with less pressure will not somehow give you magic tires that now allow you to brake better. tires have much more traction while they are still rotating. If you really want to feel braking that kicks your ass...go get some hoosiers...warm em up and then brake hard with your setup!!
But, I too have noticed that my rotors feels as if they are warped. Tedster did you notice this sort of feeling after flogging the stock pads on the track? After hearing this testimonial also, it maybe that I just damaged the pads in someway to make it feel like i warped the rotors...is that possible?