bgoetz

I would be careful not to confuse increased pedal pressure with brake fade. Typically the pedal pressure does not increase, the brake function decreases and to get the the car to slow as fast you are standing on the dang pedal.

To think of it a different way the pad/rotor pressure taked to slow a car on a non overheated pad (say a stock pad the 1st couple of laps, in it's optimal temp. range) is say 5 (on a scale of 1-10). Once the pad is overheated the pressure required to get the same stopping power is say 8. With this you would notice a harder pedal because you are applying a heck of a lot more pressure, not because the pedal pressure itself has increased. It is easy enough to be confused by this because the change in increased travel is so minimal, all you would really notice is a harder pedal.

However, the hotter the pad gets the harder you will stand on the pedal to get the car to stop, and trust me at some point as you are standing on a rock hard pedal, watching the corner fastly approch, and praying to god the car slows down enough to make the turn. You will then pay more attention to pedal firmness vs. stopping power.

Another thing to be more aware of that the increased pressure you are applying to the system can have a negative effect on other braking components (lines, calipers, master cyl., etc.) and can cause failures there.

cdelena

[QUOTE=bgoetz,Mar 18 2009, 06:28 PM] Wow man, alot of what you just said is completely WRONG.

bgoetz

I don't care if you have used your car a million times on the track you are very wrong when you say that the heat from the track does not effect fluid, IT DOES! I can't count on a single hand the amount of people who have taken new fluid onto the track and toasted it from the heat within a session or two. This has nothing to do with age or the fluid being open to the air to collect moisture, this is from the fluid being destroyed from the heat.

I will however digress a bit because you are sort of begining to imply "stockish" pads and like I stated earlier I think that it would be difficult to generate enough heat with stock pads to boil your fluid. I think the pads would fade to the point where things are no longer "fun" and the fluid would not be able to reach a critical temp. I am not saying still don't pay attention to your fluid and look to the pedal for any potential softening. I am also not saying that if you had a hard track event regardless of the age of the fluid and you feel you may have cooked it, that it is not advised to flush it. I would never say that, it is not logical or safe, just think of the price of fluid compared to the alternative.

Second there are a ton of street pads (EBC green, Hawk HPS, etc.) that have a specific bedding procedure. Maybe it does something with the glue, but it does a ton of other things too. Infact it is just as much for the new pad/to new rotor as it is anything else.

I would suggest before the next time you go out you take a course on the mechanics of braking, because with some of the falicies that you are stating, you may get yourself hurt.

pgss2k

Thanks again, I guess that what I am getting from all the replies (sorry to insight a bit of animosity) is that I could have glazed the pads, the rotors and/or possibly even boiled brand new fluid and my best bet here is to swap out stock pads,do another fluid flush and turn rotors for my daily driving. Then get myself a dedicated set of rotors and pads for track days. Change my fluid whenever in doubt (common sense) and get better at feeling what is going on exactly. I need the time to get there as my track experience is very limited. This is going to make it take a little longer for me to get that hard dog roll bar on my wish list but stopping is good!

bgoetz

I would say from the sounds of it your fluid is fine, but yes it never hurts to error on the conservative side. Besides if you have the ATE blue you flush in the gold and it can be kind of fun

As far as tracking the car, yes more time behind the wheel will get you more awareness of how things "should" feel. I would not worry to much about it, just be aware of it, always use common sense and if in doubt error on the conservative side. Another thing is that alot of braking issue related incidents can be prevented by not pushing the limits.

The track I like to relate to is Mid-ohio where there is a long straight (125ish in a stock S2k) into a moderately slow right hander. Just through this corner is a place called China Beach, it is a place you don't want to visit, but many have. In a non-race even, I really like the idea of just touching the brakes about 3/4 of the way to a conservative braking zone, just to make sure everything is good with the brakes and to give yourself enough time if there is not. Most of the issues that happen on this corner are from late hard braking and could have been prevented with a bit of caution.

pgss2k

Just to update. It finally has warmed enough to spend a few hours in the garage here. Yesterday I took the calipers off to inspect the pads. They had plenty of thickness left but had a sort of white powdery coating that just flaked off with minimal pressure from my fingers. I assume I cooked the brake pads at the track and the loss of friction was where the pads had no hardness left. Swapped out for new OEM pads, the pedal is now like a rock just after the gravity bleed before the track day. I guess some rotors and carbotechs are in order for track days in the future. Thanks for the input before

pgss2k

If your rotors looks like these pictures below, then more than likely glazed.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...#entry14600998
This is very similar but I was able to keep removing pad material by just rubbing my fingertip over the surface w/o any real pressure. Do rotors need turning or will new pads clean up the surface after a few stops?

bgoetz

^^^Use a brake cleaner, to get off any grease and then follow some sort of break in procedure (similar to what I posted above in one of my posts), that should get you by unless the rotors are warped, then you will need them turned.