G-tech Pro worthiness
01-01-2003, 09:48 AM
#32
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>>>can u show links prices for those unit u mention, pic? doing my research before i buy the gtech pro competition... thanks<<<
Just search on this site for ap22, dl90, vericom etc. Lots of info, pics and so forth. I have a Gtech Pro Comp. As I said the software is not there. It doesn't yet do what the advertisements show. Even with the recent software update. After being on the market for some time. And the PC end of the software is pitiful. The GTPC is pretty drag race oriented too - yet sports cars also turn and brake. They need to create/revise the software to make the thing as good as an AP22 is right now. And the AP22 will soon have the same software as the dl90!! The shift light is not that accurate on my car (M3) and the tach is way off at low revs. It picks up alternator pulses which are tied to engine speed. So some cars will do better than others with such an approach.
You can read about the DL90 right in this section of the forum in a live thread. An AP22 runs about $245 and a DL90 with GPS around $6-700. You can save money if you already have a GPS with a serial port connection. If you are a detail oriented but price conscious tuner, datalogging performance meters are better than dyno time cuz you can test things out more often and under real world conditions.
Stan
Just search on this site for ap22, dl90, vericom etc. Lots of info, pics and so forth. I have a Gtech Pro Comp. As I said the software is not there. It doesn't yet do what the advertisements show. Even with the recent software update. After being on the market for some time. And the PC end of the software is pitiful. The GTPC is pretty drag race oriented too - yet sports cars also turn and brake. They need to create/revise the software to make the thing as good as an AP22 is right now. And the AP22 will soon have the same software as the dl90!! The shift light is not that accurate on my car (M3) and the tach is way off at low revs. It picks up alternator pulses which are tied to engine speed. So some cars will do better than others with such an approach.
You can read about the DL90 right in this section of the forum in a live thread. An AP22 runs about $245 and a DL90 with GPS around $6-700. You can save money if you already have a GPS with a serial port connection. If you are a detail oriented but price conscious tuner, datalogging performance meters are better than dyno time cuz you can test things out more often and under real world conditions.
Stan
01-01-2003, 09:50 AM
#33
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Originally posted by TurboVtk
can u show links prices for those unit u mention, pic? doing my research before i buy the gtech pro competition... thanks
can u show links prices for those unit u mention, pic? doing my research before i buy the gtech pro competition... thanks
01-02-2003, 02:45 AM
#34
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DL90 is definitely a nice piece of gear. I thought about upgrading to it but simply don't have plans to mod my car much. Worth every penny though in my opinion.
01-02-2003, 07:09 AM
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Russ, just to make sure you know the DL90 does not require car modification for use. If you are not on the track at all, then of course there is much less use for such a device.
The gps unit that comes with the DL90 can be used for any program needing a gps receiver connecting to a computer or laptop.
The gps unit that comes with the DL90 can be used for any program needing a gps receiver connecting to a computer or laptop.
01-09-2003, 04:56 PM
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Russ: you seem to have done quite a few runs with your gtech. I was out playing around with mine tonight. I haven't dyno'd my car yet, but I read your post about how drag usually showed up as a 6hp loss between the dyno and the gtech.
My question is, my car hasn't been weighed, so I have no clue which weight to put in. Which weight did you use for your s2000?
Also I was wondering if you knew of what role weight played in the HP measurement between the dyno and gtech? I'd like to know which weight setting to use on my car so that the dyno results should be close to the gtech results (with drag included) on a 3rd gear run up to redline.
Here's the results I turned on my 5 horsepower runs:
Note: all runs were done on a flat strech of road with no curves
Temp: 65F Humid: 63% Fuel: 1/2 Tank Weight: 3385 (Gross Vehicle weight) Elev: 11ft
Run 1: 173
Run 2: 190
Run 3: 196
Run 4: 200
Run 5: 189
Do these results for this weight setting seem right? I chose the 3385 weight setting to try and account for drag.
My question is, my car hasn't been weighed, so I have no clue which weight to put in. Which weight did you use for your s2000?
Also I was wondering if you knew of what role weight played in the HP measurement between the dyno and gtech? I'd like to know which weight setting to use on my car so that the dyno results should be close to the gtech results (with drag included) on a 3rd gear run up to redline.
Here's the results I turned on my 5 horsepower runs:
Note: all runs were done on a flat strech of road with no curves
Temp: 65F Humid: 63% Fuel: 1/2 Tank Weight: 3385 (Gross Vehicle weight) Elev: 11ft
Run 1: 173
Run 2: 190
Run 3: 196
Run 4: 200
Run 5: 189
Do these results for this weight setting seem right? I chose the 3385 weight setting to try and account for drag.
01-10-2003, 05:02 AM
#38
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>>>I'd like to know which weight setting to use on my car so that the dyno results should be close to the gtech results (with drag included) on a 3rd gear run up to redline.<<<
Hmm. Why would you want the results to match? For tuning purposes you need to look at the CHANGES as you tune. The relative differences and not the absolute. You cannot compensate for aero drage by adding more weight to your weight setting. Simply compare runs and more HP is better. This misses out on the area-under-the-curve thing since you can slow a car down if you add HP at one RPM but lose more at others.
IMO the g-tech pro is not really that good of a tuning tool. I prefer the Race Technology or Vericom stuff personally. The cheapest datalogging (gets data into your PC for analaysis, graphing etc) runs about 240-250. You calibrate the thing for suspension squat, rolling resistance, aero drag, rollout if you drag, 1/4 mile MPH calculation method (speed at the 1/4 mark or the 60 foot average method), on an on it's so much better. You can get area-under-the-curve results, torque and HP curves, you name it. And RT is working to get the new DL90 software to work on the AP22 data. Check out www.race-technology.com I got my AP22 and DL90 through Chris Brown racing on RT's distributor list.
Stan
Hmm. Why would you want the results to match? For tuning purposes you need to look at the CHANGES as you tune. The relative differences and not the absolute. You cannot compensate for aero drage by adding more weight to your weight setting. Simply compare runs and more HP is better. This misses out on the area-under-the-curve thing since you can slow a car down if you add HP at one RPM but lose more at others.
IMO the g-tech pro is not really that good of a tuning tool. I prefer the Race Technology or Vericom stuff personally. The cheapest datalogging (gets data into your PC for analaysis, graphing etc) runs about 240-250. You calibrate the thing for suspension squat, rolling resistance, aero drag, rollout if you drag, 1/4 mile MPH calculation method (speed at the 1/4 mark or the 60 foot average method), on an on it's so much better. You can get area-under-the-curve results, torque and HP curves, you name it. And RT is working to get the new DL90 software to work on the AP22 data. Check out www.race-technology.com I got my AP22 and DL90 through Chris Brown racing on RT's distributor list.
Stan
01-10-2003, 05:44 AM
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You can weigh your car at just about any truck stop which has a weigh machine. Look around, they're usually cool about it. I always test with the same amount of gas in the car (five bars) and make sure the car doesn't have anything in the trunk that would skew the original weight I verified with five bars. Unless, I eat a few dozen cheeseburgers in between runs, I input the same weight each time. Drag will be the same if the weather conditions are similar (which they should be...IOW, no high winds, etc) because the frontal area of the car (I assume) hasn't changed. This is how you would determine to some degree what your mods (intake, etc) are doing for horsepower. A redline run to the top of 3rd gear is all it takes to get a baseline hp measurement. You don't have to run her all the way up to 140 mph. 
The GTECH unit is quickly being surpassed though by the many upgraded accelerometers out on the market. The Vericom is expensive but there are other alternatives. For me, it's good enough for what limited performance mods I've done to the car. I really don't even think I'll be using it this season because I'm basically done trying to make the car quicker since I'm not going forced induction, tuning computers or nitrous....what else is there to make the car quicker other than perhaps headers or super light wheels? Just remember, you've obviously got to weigh the car with the driver inside. NEVER try and compensate for drag. In my opinion, if you didn't dyno your car to establish a baseline which would give you a good indicator of what drag is doing (IOW, say you dyno'd at 200 but your first series of GTECH runs showed 192...well, you now have a good idea that drag from the road dyno run is taking 8 hp away from the dyno figure) then you've got to compare gTECH runs. You throw on a muffler and intake (bear in mind weight adjustments from those mods) and do a series of runs and that # climbs to 203 then you can figure you've added 11hp to the top end of the car. Give or take....
The GTECH unit is quickly being surpassed though by the many upgraded accelerometers out on the market. The Vericom is expensive but there are other alternatives. For me, it's good enough for what limited performance mods I've done to the car. I really don't even think I'll be using it this season because I'm basically done trying to make the car quicker since I'm not going forced induction, tuning computers or nitrous....what else is there to make the car quicker other than perhaps headers or super light wheels? Just remember, you've obviously got to weigh the car with the driver inside. NEVER try and compensate for drag. In my opinion, if you didn't dyno your car to establish a baseline which would give you a good indicator of what drag is doing (IOW, say you dyno'd at 200 but your first series of GTECH runs showed 192...well, you now have a good idea that drag from the road dyno run is taking 8 hp away from the dyno figure) then you've got to compare gTECH runs. You throw on a muffler and intake (bear in mind weight adjustments from those mods) and do a series of runs and that # climbs to 203 then you can figure you've added 11hp to the top end of the car. Give or take....
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