Front Upper Camber Arms or Lower Offset Ball Joint?
04-09-2021, 03:09 AM
#11
The newer model SPC upper joints probably won't make it past the 5-10K mark if used in climates that see water on the roads. UNLESS you replace the grease they come with.
If you have the red boot ones...then...yeah, they will last.
Not sure where Porsche comes in, however. I doubt SPC is making parts equivalent to Porsche OEM for the $100/ea they charge.
If you have the red boot ones...then...yeah, they will last.
Not sure where Porsche comes in, however. I doubt SPC is making parts equivalent to Porsche OEM for the $100/ea they charge.
04-09-2021, 05:12 AM
#12
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That's not comparable to a plastic rod with a hole drilled in it. I can do that at home with a saw and a shovel.
04-09-2021, 05:36 AM
#13
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Well...Porsche (and every other OEM that uses them) uses a metal housing with a sealed, pressed in, precision plastic race and ultra smooth metal ball. There's no play or binding. And the tolerances are incredible.
That's not comparable to a plastic rod with a hole drilled in it. I can do that at home with a saw and a shovel.
That's not comparable to a plastic rod with a hole drilled in it. I can do that at home with a saw and a shovel.
04-09-2021, 05:52 AM
#14
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Biggest difference between the bushing you can make at home with a saw and shovel, and the SPCs/Dormans, is that I can point directly to catastrophic failures with the SPCs/Dormans, yet I have not seen reported failures that were directly related to the fact that Origin Fab/Baero bushings were installed. Doesn't mean they don't exist, but I personally have not seen any. Do you have any reports of failure you can link regarding the upper a-arm bushings that we can look into?
I didn't say Delrin bushings would make the arm fail. I'm just saying its not a fantastic setup.
If he's just doing this to make the wheels on his street car fit properly....then it just seems that the upper joints are the easiest and most beneficial way. No?
04-09-2021, 06:04 AM
#15
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When the OP posted, he did not mention anything about racing: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-br...l-arm-1172212/
You mentioned failures regarding racing in the thread, but that was from other people posting their failures. His previous post history also does not show any history of racing his vehicle. Outside of trying to cyberstalk the dude, I would have to assume that his vehicle was, at the very least, mostly street driven.
You mentioned failures regarding racing in the thread, but that was from other people posting their failures. His previous post history also does not show any history of racing his vehicle. Outside of trying to cyberstalk the dude, I would have to assume that his vehicle was, at the very least, mostly street driven.
04-09-2021, 06:23 AM
#16
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When the OP posted, he did not mention anything about racing: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/s2000-br...l-arm-1172212/
You mentioned failures regarding racing in the thread, but that was from other people posting their failures. His previous post history also does not show any history of racing his vehicle. Outside of trying to cyberstalk the dude, I would have to assume that his vehicle was, at the very least, mostly street driven.
You mentioned failures regarding racing in the thread, but that was from other people posting their failures. His previous post history also does not show any history of racing his vehicle. Outside of trying to cyberstalk the dude, I would have to assume that his vehicle was, at the very least, mostly street driven.
Do note that the same thread has a car with a LOWER joint failure as well.
All of the failures are a total mystery.
One dude had a lower arm fail. One dude had a stock upper arm fail.
Its all over the place.
Some people were racing. So literally ANYTHING could have happened to cause those failures.
The OP in your thread...his arm looked as if it were cracking for some time.
Its not exactly scientific to point at SPC joints causing "catastrophic failure", is it?
04-09-2021, 06:59 AM
#17
Registered User
I don't think any testing that is possible by mere mortals with finite budget such as us is exactly scientific, but this is how I see it:
I have seen a-arm failure. In a majority of cases I have seen, people appear to be using SPC ball joints. In a handful of cases, the a-arms were 100% stock. A majority were tracked. At least one can be inferred that it was street driven.
I have not seen any reported failures with the offset upper a-arm bushings breaking in a manner that would suggest the offset bushings are the cause. In fact, I have seen zero stock a-arm + offset bushing failures. If you have any to point to, I would like to see them.
Therefore, if I had to choose based on the OP's requirements, I would choose offset bushings. It's ultimately everyone's call to make their own decision. This is mine based on what I have seen from people's reports on the manner. Everyone else is free to choose whatever they would like based on their own research. In the end, I personally chose RCAs for my situation, but the OP can make whatever choice they think is best.
I have seen a-arm failure. In a majority of cases I have seen, people appear to be using SPC ball joints. In a handful of cases, the a-arms were 100% stock. A majority were tracked. At least one can be inferred that it was street driven.
I have not seen any reported failures with the offset upper a-arm bushings breaking in a manner that would suggest the offset bushings are the cause. In fact, I have seen zero stock a-arm + offset bushing failures. If you have any to point to, I would like to see them.
Therefore, if I had to choose based on the OP's requirements, I would choose offset bushings. It's ultimately everyone's call to make their own decision. This is mine based on what I have seen from people's reports on the manner. Everyone else is free to choose whatever they would like based on their own research. In the end, I personally chose RCAs for my situation, but the OP can make whatever choice they think is best.
04-09-2021, 07:20 AM
#18
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I don't think any testing that is possible by mere mortals with finite budget such as us is exactly scientific, but this is how I see it:
I have seen a-arm failure. In a majority of cases I have seen, people appear to be using SPC ball joints. In a handful of cases, the a-arms were 100% stock. A majority were tracked. At least one can be inferred that it was street driven.
I have not seen any reported failures with the offset upper a-arm bushings breaking in a manner that would suggest the offset bushings are the cause. In fact, I have seen zero stock a-arm + offset bushing failures. If you have any to point to, I would like to see them.
Therefore, if I had to choose based on the OP's requirements, I would choose offset bushings. It's ultimately everyone's call to make their own decision. This is mine based on what I have seen from people's reports on the manner. Everyone else is free to choose whatever they would like based on their own research. In the end, I personally chose RCAs for my situation, but the OP can make whatever choice they think is best.
I have seen a-arm failure. In a majority of cases I have seen, people appear to be using SPC ball joints. In a handful of cases, the a-arms were 100% stock. A majority were tracked. At least one can be inferred that it was street driven.
I have not seen any reported failures with the offset upper a-arm bushings breaking in a manner that would suggest the offset bushings are the cause. In fact, I have seen zero stock a-arm + offset bushing failures. If you have any to point to, I would like to see them.
Therefore, if I had to choose based on the OP's requirements, I would choose offset bushings. It's ultimately everyone's call to make their own decision. This is mine based on what I have seen from people's reports on the manner. Everyone else is free to choose whatever they would like based on their own research. In the end, I personally chose RCAs for my situation, but the OP can make whatever choice they think is best.
Of course. He has to make decisions based on his use.
NONE of the aftermarket options are foolproof.
But its inaccurate to say "SPC's cause catastrophic failures".
Delrin bushings are prone to failure too. That's why OEM's don't use them. So comparing them to something completely different that OEM's do use is also going to point people in the wrong direction.
04-09-2021, 07:58 AM
#19
Im still here, I use to track my old one heavily but this one will get light track work, 3-4 times a year maybe. I want to get 2.8-3 camber in the front as that was what my old car was dialed in with but that was with the lower ball joints.
Since im trying to run a +42 offset wheel, i figure if i get an upper arm, i can pull in the top and get better wheel clearance. Otherwise i might just get a fixed lower, you figure with anything adjustable, there is a chance of it to slip.
Since im trying to run a +42 offset wheel, i figure if i get an upper arm, i can pull in the top and get better wheel clearance. Otherwise i might just get a fixed lower, you figure with anything adjustable, there is a chance of it to slip.
04-09-2021, 08:45 AM
#20
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Oh...maybe a Hardrace adjustable upper arm is a good option then.
Personally, I haven't seen any issues (referening broken UCA's) with my or my friends' cars using SPC for the past 10-12 years with lots of track use.
But hey...tires are getting stickier. So these cars are bound to start breaking their fairly light duty OEM parts that were designed to work with max performance tires that were on the market like 21+ years ago.
I agree that adding a moment load will only make the arms MORE breakable.
I like using lower joints because it widens the track.
I like Hardrace/Megan because they include optional RCA plates if you wanna use them with tie rod position correction and all that rabbithole stuff.
Or you can run standard thickness with just the camber correction. Your scrub radius and bumpsteer will be slightly affected. But...you can probably ignore that.
But that doesn't pull in the top of the tire. And they come with their own set of risks.
Personally, I haven't seen any issues (referening broken UCA's) with my or my friends' cars using SPC for the past 10-12 years with lots of track use.
But hey...tires are getting stickier. So these cars are bound to start breaking their fairly light duty OEM parts that were designed to work with max performance tires that were on the market like 21+ years ago.
I agree that adding a moment load will only make the arms MORE breakable.
I like using lower joints because it widens the track.
I like Hardrace/Megan because they include optional RCA plates if you wanna use them with tie rod position correction and all that rabbithole stuff.
Or you can run standard thickness with just the camber correction. Your scrub radius and bumpsteer will be slightly affected. But...you can probably ignore that.
But that doesn't pull in the top of the tire. And they come with their own set of risks.