Fresh complete engine rebuild, rough idle
04-22-2022, 05:48 AM
#1
Fresh complete engine rebuild, rough idle
Hi guys!
So the Honda Dealer installed my refurbished engine that had been rebuilt. However, I’ve been told that it has a rough idle, Engine light flickers, but under acceleration and all other conditions It “runs amazing, the techs love it.” Originally they thought it was bad gas but found cylinder number four they said had a fuel issue. They feel it’s related to the PCM. They put a used one in from a S 2000 they found in Nevada, but it’s still having the same issue. They are remanufacturing my original ECM and are confident that will fix the problem. But it doesn’t make sense that a used PCM would present the same problem? They have assured me they rechecked all the valves adjusted them appropriately and that there’s no issues with compression. Any thoughts? I’m going to be picking it up in a couple days when I’m off work but feel uncomfortable. Thanks for your thoughts and opinions
Shane
So the Honda Dealer installed my refurbished engine that had been rebuilt. However, I’ve been told that it has a rough idle, Engine light flickers, but under acceleration and all other conditions It “runs amazing, the techs love it.” Originally they thought it was bad gas but found cylinder number four they said had a fuel issue. They feel it’s related to the PCM. They put a used one in from a S 2000 they found in Nevada, but it’s still having the same issue. They are remanufacturing my original ECM and are confident that will fix the problem. But it doesn’t make sense that a used PCM would present the same problem? They have assured me they rechecked all the valves adjusted them appropriately and that there’s no issues with compression. Any thoughts? I’m going to be picking it up in a couple days when I’m off work but feel uncomfortable. Thanks for your thoughts and opinions
Shane
Last edited by Greengiant; 04-22-2022 at 05:51 AM.
04-22-2022, 06:23 PM
#2
Stealership. Might as well set car on fire. They'll wreck it, and blame you.
One cylinder isn't getting proper fuel. Assuming rhat is actually what is going on (a huge assumption when dealing with dealer), first step would always be swap injectors around. See if issue follows injectors. This is troubleshooting 101. As basic as it gets.
Dealers always want to blame ecu first, and ecu is almost never the issue. Don't really understand how computer works, let alone how to diagnose an engine, so blame computer.
When you ask of they tried swapping injectors around, they'll ask who told you to try that. When you mention internet, they'll roll their eyes as laugh at you for listening to idiots online.
Sadly, this forum collectively knows more about these cars than virtually any dealership.
Once this issue is resolved (if) I urge you never to go to dealership for service on any car.
What was wrong with engine that it needed to be rebuilt?
Who rebuilt it? If you came here first, we'd have told you the rebuild success rate for anyone but a handful of places that specialize in this particular motor is virtually zero. Plenty have tried, virtually all failed.
Even the places that specialize in rebuilds of this engine have difficulties. Far from 100% success rate.
We'd have told you a good used motor is a much smarter idea.
The reasons rebuilds of this motor fail are many. First there is the frm cylinder walls. They require special knowledge abd special techniques. Boring, honing.
These engines were hand built. To achieve the super tight tolerances required to survive regular 9k rpm experiences, there were multiple piston sizes, and multiple bearing sizes to choose from, so that the minor tolerances of that crank in that block, and that piston in that bore could all fit together perfectly. This allows precision that far exceeds normal manufacturing tolerances.
Each bore might have different piston size (usually do), and each crank and each rod can have different bearing size.
During rebuild, they can't just order one size piston and one size bearing and install them.
One cylinder isn't getting proper fuel. Assuming rhat is actually what is going on (a huge assumption when dealing with dealer), first step would always be swap injectors around. See if issue follows injectors. This is troubleshooting 101. As basic as it gets.
Dealers always want to blame ecu first, and ecu is almost never the issue. Don't really understand how computer works, let alone how to diagnose an engine, so blame computer.
When you ask of they tried swapping injectors around, they'll ask who told you to try that. When you mention internet, they'll roll their eyes as laugh at you for listening to idiots online.
Sadly, this forum collectively knows more about these cars than virtually any dealership.
Once this issue is resolved (if) I urge you never to go to dealership for service on any car.
What was wrong with engine that it needed to be rebuilt?
Who rebuilt it? If you came here first, we'd have told you the rebuild success rate for anyone but a handful of places that specialize in this particular motor is virtually zero. Plenty have tried, virtually all failed.
Even the places that specialize in rebuilds of this engine have difficulties. Far from 100% success rate.
We'd have told you a good used motor is a much smarter idea.
The reasons rebuilds of this motor fail are many. First there is the frm cylinder walls. They require special knowledge abd special techniques. Boring, honing.
These engines were hand built. To achieve the super tight tolerances required to survive regular 9k rpm experiences, there were multiple piston sizes, and multiple bearing sizes to choose from, so that the minor tolerances of that crank in that block, and that piston in that bore could all fit together perfectly. This allows precision that far exceeds normal manufacturing tolerances.
Each bore might have different piston size (usually do), and each crank and each rod can have different bearing size.
During rebuild, they can't just order one size piston and one size bearing and install them.
04-23-2022, 02:37 AM
#3
If its getting fuel then it might be spark plugs.
04-23-2022, 04:30 AM
#4
Shortly after I bought the car the check engine light came on. Turns out it had almost no oil pressure at idle. There were metal shavings in the oil so the dealership recommended a new engine. They sent my engine as a core charge to a company called AAAengine That already had a rebuilt engine ready to go. It had rough idle with flickering engine light.They replaced the injector and the seal to cylinder number four prior to trying another ECU. Still has same issues despite all of this. Yes they are all new spark plugs. Great Didn’t know those facts you mentioned with this engine. I’m paying $9500 for all this work (new clutch as well) and now I feel there is a problem with the engine and they arnt going to fix it. So what should I do drive it around till its fails and hope they honor the warranty?
Last edited by Greengiant; 04-23-2022 at 04:32 AM.
04-23-2022, 08:46 AM
#5
Not sure taking the car away from them if its not running right is a good idea,get them to take you out in it to prove its ok before handing any $
04-23-2022, 04:24 PM
#7
It has a one year warranty, right?
My suggestion is:
Don't let it leave dealership until they get it running right. If they can't, ask for money back. This is their recommended engine supplier. That won't be easy, and they'll likely try to say issue with motor, and its on you to deal with AAA. Then try and charge you storage fees. Just be prepared for this fight.
Assuming they do get, or a second engine or whatever gets worked out running right, drive, drive, drive the heck outta it for the next year. Definitely redline often (which isn't abuse for the original motor).
Either it'll survive, and somehow AAA did a good job, which would be great, or it'll fail. If it fails, go back to dealer and ask for money back.
My fear is dealer was savvy enough to make the deal with AAA YOUR deal not theirs. Like, youou bought engine from AAA, and asked dealer to install it. Not you had dealer do everything A-Z, and they happened to get engine from this other place.
So if engine fails, its got nothing to do with dealer. All on you. Even if AAA sends a new engine if first one fails, dealer will still want you to pay them to install it.
If that is the case, all you've got on your side is dealer only gave you one choice for engine source. Hopefully a lawyer can help make them responsible for labor if it has to be replaced under warranty, and if they realize that is going to happen over and over (repeat failures), maybe they'll give you partial refund just to get out of it.
I am curious how this engine will fair. But my most optimistic guess is no way its going to last a year if you put miles on and drive it like it was meant to be. Hopefully I'm wrong.
This forum is the repository of S knowledge. Stay away from advice on FB. Come here first before any future major work. Avoid stealership at all costs (not just Honda, all of them).
My suggestion is:
Don't let it leave dealership until they get it running right. If they can't, ask for money back. This is their recommended engine supplier. That won't be easy, and they'll likely try to say issue with motor, and its on you to deal with AAA. Then try and charge you storage fees. Just be prepared for this fight.
Assuming they do get, or a second engine or whatever gets worked out running right, drive, drive, drive the heck outta it for the next year. Definitely redline often (which isn't abuse for the original motor).
Either it'll survive, and somehow AAA did a good job, which would be great, or it'll fail. If it fails, go back to dealer and ask for money back.
My fear is dealer was savvy enough to make the deal with AAA YOUR deal not theirs. Like, youou bought engine from AAA, and asked dealer to install it. Not you had dealer do everything A-Z, and they happened to get engine from this other place.
So if engine fails, its got nothing to do with dealer. All on you. Even if AAA sends a new engine if first one fails, dealer will still want you to pay them to install it.
If that is the case, all you've got on your side is dealer only gave you one choice for engine source. Hopefully a lawyer can help make them responsible for labor if it has to be replaced under warranty, and if they realize that is going to happen over and over (repeat failures), maybe they'll give you partial refund just to get out of it.
I am curious how this engine will fair. But my most optimistic guess is no way its going to last a year if you put miles on and drive it like it was meant to be. Hopefully I'm wrong.
This forum is the repository of S knowledge. Stay away from advice on FB. Come here first before any future major work. Avoid stealership at all costs (not just Honda, all of them).
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04-24-2022, 04:06 AM
#8
Yeah that sounds like a good idea. The dealership arranged the purchase and I pay them not the engine builder so maybe I can use that to my advantage like you mentioned. I will tell them tomorrow they can keep the car a year if it takes that long to fix the problem. The engine comes with a warranty so if they do manage to fix this problem that is sound advice to drive it hard to make sure everything is OK.
04-24-2022, 05:43 AM
#9
Hey, make sure warranty clock starts when you get the car back, not when they delivered engine!
04-27-2022, 07:43 AM
#10
I just did a quick Google search of that company. They have absolutely horrible reviews. I would proceed with caution and I would NOT take the car unless the problem is fixed. Your telling me a master honda tech cant figure it out? Ill tell you what it is. He most likely gets paid book time and does not want to spend more time on your car. You are paying nearly 10K and it is not acceptable for you to get a car back that is not running properly. And make sure you are on top of any maintenance with the new engine. They will use any excuse to void the warranty. I have worked in the service department of a dealership before. I know exactly how it goes. All they car about is making money and they will be dishonest if they need to be.