zachzammit

Hi Im new to the forum so hi to everyone and well done its a very informative forum, Im from Malta and I have a 1993 formula 3 Ralt and ive fit a F20c engine in it.

I have 2 engines at the moment 1 in pieces cause a year ago overheating cause the pistons to eat through the bore and the 1 on the car at the moment which spun the bearings twice and is on its 3rd crank hehe.... well thats some history of our trial and error but now the dry sump has been perfected and i dont think I have oil issues, and this comes to my first question.

at 75 deg celcius oil temp my idle pressure is about 22psi at 9000rpm 80psi what do you guys think?

Also now ive come to a point where i need more power, at the moment the engine has a hondata kpro but other than that its stock.
Forced induction is out of the question and Im not sure about stroking it because my hewland gearbox is rated with a max of 180ftlbs.
My idea was to stick on throttle bodies and some cams.

What do you s2k guru's think? any advice is welcome because here in Malta proper tuning of this engine is still new.

Some fotos:

http://yfrog.com/6p33708156329261069488100j
http://yfrog.com/jj33708156329257736155100j
http://yfrog.com/jl33708156329254402822100j
http://yfrog.com/f533708156329247736156100j

atomic

Okay, looking at the pics it looks like you are running a Pace CD2000 pump?, if that is correct do you know which rotor size you have?
I run mine with 1.4",1.4",1.4" and run with a spring allowing 120psi oil pressure. I found that the 80/85psi oil pressure to low for this type of application. Replacement springs with various rates are available directly from Pace Products.

I would suggest a new ems, the best choice being the EFI Technology srl Euro-4.
This is the best ECU in my opinion on the market at this moment in time for this type of application (4-Cylinder and OBD-II compliment). The Euro-4 is used by are large number of teams in the WTCC, BTTC and JWRC/PWRC to name but a few. It is also used by the official Works Honda Team (run by Jas Motorsport) in various formats. The software for Honda applications was developed directly with Mugen (EFI Technology supply directly to Honda Japan and work directly with them on prototype ecu's) and it will do everything you need and more.

Equivalent ecu's would be Bosch MS 4 Sport and Pactel SQ6 but these ecu's cost about 50% more for the same spec and both use costly software upgrade options to unlock certain features that are standard on the Euro-4.
There is also the new Euro-2 for the more cost conscious, this has many of the same features as the Euro-4 bit is cheaper. There are some notable differences between the two so you need to look at the specs and decide for yourself.

If you give Russell O'Hagan a call or drop him a email (sales@obr.uk.com) at http://www.obr.uk.com he will be able to assist you.

ECU Spec Sheets
http://www.obr.uk.com/pdfs/Euro%204.pdf
http://www.obr.uk.com/pdfs/Euro%202.pdf

If you are looking at ITB's then I would go for the AT Power shaftless throttle bodies as I believe they are best available at the moment in time and at a very competitive price.
http://atpowershop.co.uk/catalog/hon...head-p-88.html
AT Power are currently working on a DBW ITB package and the EFI Technology Euro-4 will have no problem driving either DBW or the throttle cable system. I've been very happy with my cable version but am eagerly awaiting the DRW version so I can use my Euro-4 to add auto blip.

Schumiii

Hi Zach, I believe we used to kart together a few years back.

I am not sure you are on the right engine if you want more power without forced induction. It is already maxed out. You might want to consider changing to the F22C engine which was the updated S2K engine for the US market with 2.2 litres. It has identical power to F20C but power was more readily available at lower revs.

Good luck with your project. Give me a shout if you want to drag your F3 with my S2k

atomic

As the car is a competition car then to gain a significant mid range increase in both torque and bhp all that is required is to lower the VTEC engagement point or run in vtec mode all the time and map to suit.
I wouldn't go to a F22 personally as the F20 has plenty of potential given a little time, understanding and of course money.
If you can guarantee fuel quality and a high ron/mon rating then increasing the compression by installing Mahle "Gold Series" pistons in 13.5:1 (think that's the highest they do in the 87/87.25mm FRM compatible Gold Series) and a Cosworth .38mm head gasket would see quite good gains also.

After this you are getting into head work ie porting, valve chamber reshaping and cams etc.

dsthez

thats got to be a fat intake noise right behind your ears

wadzii

the mahle +9cc pistons are 12.5:1 in a 2 liter engine, 13.5:1 in a 2.2.

They also have the custom shorter pistons so you can use ap1 rods with an ap2 crank. you get a little longer rod and the piston is about 30grams lighter.

zachzammit

Thanks for the replies, I was thinking about some cams and throttle bodies.

Does anyone have experience with throttle bodies and a Kpro hondata?

Can anyone tell me the best way out of experience to fixed a block with scratched bores? Im going the NA route.

Thanks again!!!

atomic

Depending on how deep/severe the damage you maybe able to get the bores honed and use 87.25mm pistons. If not then it's either a new block or a sleeve job from the likes of AEBS, Darton, LA Sleeve..etc.
To see whats involved in honing a FRM bore the link below should give you some idea as it's not quite as simple as doing a traditional grey/ductile cast iron job.
http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/ht...ners/index.html

ldibiase

Hello Zach,

I am working on a similar project. Did you design the dry sump? If so is it fully stressed mounted in the car? I would be very interested in your work.

I also need to build a NA f20c. Through out my research, ITB, ECU and Cams are the area of greatest gains.

Good luck on the project...it look like alot of fun.

I can be reached directly at larryez1@hotmail.com

rosodigital

OMFG!!!!! I want to drive that SOOOO bad!!!