F20C increased redline
04-17-2008, 09:09 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by street_ruler,Apr 17 2008, 10:55 AM
i personally think that the rod ratio and the pistons speeds are ok for this motor. gotta remember that we have one of the most robust motors ever built by honda. everything is forged...tehy use slipper pistons (short skirts) oil squirters, a MASSIVE "Main Girdle" which is like the entire bottom half of the motor. really robust cam towers...which is a different venture from other motors that honda has made.
i personally think you can spin it to say.....10 to 10200 easily.
as for power you arent going to find that much that high, but if you are looking for the ability to stretrch a gear then ok.
you might want to think about the ap2 trans with the ap1 motor for HPDE's. little longer 6th.
lastly think about this....why do you want to spin that high to begin with, what advantage is that going to get you? stay in gear longer? maybe think about switching to a longer diff. also what about oiling at that speed? maybe think about a dry sump setup.
i personally think you can spin it to say.....10 to 10200 easily.
as for power you arent going to find that much that high, but if you are looking for the ability to stretrch a gear then ok.
you might want to think about the ap2 trans with the ap1 motor for HPDE's. little longer 6th.
lastly think about this....why do you want to spin that high to begin with, what advantage is that going to get you? stay in gear longer? maybe think about switching to a longer diff. also what about oiling at that speed? maybe think about a dry sump setup.
This motor is in a Lotus Super 7 kitcar. There is no room in the engine bay for any kind of forced induction. I could go with a stroker kit and lower the redline, but I'll only be pushing around 1500lbs or so and don't really need the extra torque. I like the high-revving nature of the motor and would like to push it higher.
I'm unsure about the necessary gearing, as the car will be drag limited for sure. I'm running the AP1 tranny and 4.10's in the Miata rear end. 4.77's in the rear and a 9500rpm redline makes top speed 174mph which should be MORE than enough.
As far as oiling goes, I've got a RED dry sump already in place.
04-17-2008, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by scottrunsxc,Apr 17 2008, 11:28 AM
Why not do it the easy way? FI is your friend. NA is going to be more expensive, make less power, and be less reliable.
04-17-2008, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by passmans2kny,Apr 17 2008, 11:42 AM
so wheres the pics of this set up?
04-18-2008, 06:37 AM
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yah i was going to say, get some new valve springs, and stay away from ti retainers. i see too many of those fail.
as for the 4.10, thats a stock s2000 gearing. i would really consider changing diffs though. the stock diff tends to fail from wheel hop or hard launches. you can walk the pinion right up the ring gear.
maybe using the miata 4.77 would give you the thrust that you want. depending on where you are running the car id look into a 4.44 or 4.77 rear end like you were thinking.
the drag limiting thing is more about top speed than anything you wont notice it with a 2ndary reduced tranny and a 4.77 rear end. thats such a short-legged combo.
are you planning on building this motor before running it? if you are, i know they are balanced nicely from the factory but you may want to look into replacing the pistons with even lighter weight ones or lighter weight rods.
maybe even stepping down in compression a little bit to use a lighter rod/piston combo to eek out those revvs. you can make up the power from compression from soemthing else like head porting, or opening up the exhaust, lighter driveshaft ect. there are ways to do that.
as for the 4.10, thats a stock s2000 gearing. i would really consider changing diffs though. the stock diff tends to fail from wheel hop or hard launches. you can walk the pinion right up the ring gear.
maybe using the miata 4.77 would give you the thrust that you want. depending on where you are running the car id look into a 4.44 or 4.77 rear end like you were thinking.
the drag limiting thing is more about top speed than anything you wont notice it with a 2ndary reduced tranny and a 4.77 rear end. thats such a short-legged combo.
are you planning on building this motor before running it? if you are, i know they are balanced nicely from the factory but you may want to look into replacing the pistons with even lighter weight ones or lighter weight rods.
maybe even stepping down in compression a little bit to use a lighter rod/piston combo to eek out those revvs. you can make up the power from compression from soemthing else like head porting, or opening up the exhaust, lighter driveshaft ect. there are ways to do that.
04-18-2008, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by street_ruler,Apr 18 2008, 08:37 AM
yah i was going to say, get some new valve springs, and stay away from ti retainers. i see too many of those fail.
as for the 4.10, thats a stock s2000 gearing. i would really consider changing diffs though. the stock diff tends to fail from wheel hop or hard launches. you can walk the pinion right up the ring gear.
maybe using the miata 4.77 would give you the thrust that you want. depending on where you are running the car id look into a 4.44 or 4.77 rear end like you were thinking.
the drag limiting thing is more about top speed than anything you wont notice it with a 2ndary reduced tranny and a 4.77 rear end. thats such a short-legged combo.
are you planning on building this motor before running it? if you are, i know they are balanced nicely from the factory but you may want to look into replacing the pistons with even lighter weight ones or lighter weight rods.
maybe even stepping down in compression a little bit to use a lighter rod/piston combo to eek out those revvs. you can make up the power from compression from soemthing else like head porting, or opening up the exhaust, lighter driveshaft ect. there are ways to do that.
as for the 4.10, thats a stock s2000 gearing. i would really consider changing diffs though. the stock diff tends to fail from wheel hop or hard launches. you can walk the pinion right up the ring gear.
maybe using the miata 4.77 would give you the thrust that you want. depending on where you are running the car id look into a 4.44 or 4.77 rear end like you were thinking.
the drag limiting thing is more about top speed than anything you wont notice it with a 2ndary reduced tranny and a 4.77 rear end. thats such a short-legged combo.
are you planning on building this motor before running it? if you are, i know they are balanced nicely from the factory but you may want to look into replacing the pistons with even lighter weight ones or lighter weight rods.
maybe even stepping down in compression a little bit to use a lighter rod/piston combo to eek out those revvs. you can make up the power from compression from soemthing else like head porting, or opening up the exhaust, lighter driveshaft ect. there are ways to do that.
The motor is a pull from a 2002 with 60k miles. Right now I'm gonna leave it as-is to get the car running and titled, just planning ahead. Ideally I'd like to leave the bottom end alone for now.
I've got a 8.5# Toda flywheel in the bellhousing so that will free up some power and the driveshaft is gonna be cut in half to fit. 4.77's is REAL short gearing but I think the 9500-10200rpm redline will make up for it.
04-18-2008, 06:55 AM
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maybe even think about a r200 long/short nose form a nissan...you might like that one.
make sure you get your flywheel and clutch balanced before you install it and have it match marked.
make sure you get your flywheel and clutch balanced before you install it and have it match marked.