Even more broken retainers found
11-09-2006, 03:25 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by SpitfireS,Nov 9 2006, 11:35 AM
Only thing I'm "worried" about is that most Honda dealers do not know (or do not want to) perform this without pulling the head.
I would rather not pull the head.
I would rather not pull the head.
Thanks for the heads-up. Next week my car is up for a major service (93k km); I have asked my Honda dealer to have a look at my retainers. I'm curious to find out if they even know what they are
11-09-2006, 04:01 AM
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SpitfireS Posted on Nov 9 2006, 11:35 AM
I have to add I was speculating about this and have not yet asked my Honda dealer about this.
I do know, that the procedure (replacing the retainers & keepers that is) as stated in the service manual requires to pull the head.
Most likely a dealer will follow that manual too.
As mentioned in this thread and others, inspecting the retainers, requires to lift the valve cover as one would do for a valve clearence inspection / adjustment.
mbvt Posted on Nov 9 2006, 01:25 PM
I'm sure they do, as long as you called them "klepveerschotels" 
IMO it is safe to say ALL Honda engines have retainers.
(apart from the Jet engine
and in my book an electric motor is not an engine)
Only thing I'm "worried" about is that most Honda dealers do not know (or do not want to) perform this without pulling the head.
I do know, that the procedure (replacing the retainers & keepers that is) as stated in the service manual requires to pull the head.
Most likely a dealer will follow that manual too.
As mentioned in this thread and others, inspecting the retainers, requires to lift the valve cover as one would do for a valve clearence inspection / adjustment.
mbvt Posted on Nov 9 2006, 01:25 PM
I'm curious to find out if they even know what they are
IMO it is safe to say ALL Honda engines have retainers.
(apart from the Jet engine
and in my book an electric motor is not an engine)
11-09-2006, 06:14 AM
#23
Originally Posted by SpitfireS,Nov 9 2006, 02:35 AM
Billman250 Posted on Nov 9 2006, 05:31 AM
Was that car an AP1 or AP2?
Is it ok to use AP2 retainers & keepers on a F20C2 (AP1) engine in your opinion?
In other threads it was mentioned AP2 retainers are a bit heavier, would that be a problem at higher revs?
Would you recommend changing them at a certain milage, regardless of the condition they are in? (as far as it is possible to make a decision about the condition for someone without the experience you have)
My F20C2 now has 127000 km on it, and the other day I "played back" the high rev memory of the shifter beeper and it told me 9500 rpm.
Would any of the 2 reasons be enough to change them out (to be safe) or just inspect?
Only thing I'm "worried" about is that most Honda dealers do not know (or do not want to) perform this without pulling the head.
I would rather not pull the head.
Was that car an AP1 or AP2?
Is it ok to use AP2 retainers & keepers on a F20C2 (AP1) engine in your opinion?
In other threads it was mentioned AP2 retainers are a bit heavier, would that be a problem at higher revs?
Would you recommend changing them at a certain milage, regardless of the condition they are in? (as far as it is possible to make a decision about the condition for someone without the experience you have)
My F20C2 now has 127000 km on it, and the other day I "played back" the high rev memory of the shifter beeper and it told me 9500 rpm.
Would any of the 2 reasons be enough to change them out (to be safe) or just inspect?
Only thing I'm "worried" about is that most Honda dealers do not know (or do not want to) perform this without pulling the head.
I would rather not pull the head.
Will the weight of the AP2 retainer affect the reliability??
Load increases with the square of the rpm, there's a big diff in the forces a slightly heavier part sees at 8k vs 9k.
Are there any other honda engines with stock valve retainer issues??
11-09-2006, 08:31 AM
#26
I have been trying to search google and such for some equaions to determind a load number at a given RPM with a given retainer weight but so far have not been able to find such an equation, can anyone direct me so i can throw together this equation to try and produce numbers
11-09-2006, 09:07 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by Kyushin,Nov 9 2006, 11:31 AM
I have been trying to search google and such for some equaions to determind a load number at a given RPM with a given retainer weight but so far have not been able to find such an equation, can anyone direct me so i can throw together this equation to try and produce numbers
??? Not sure what you're looking for.
If you're looking for what I think you are... then you're going to need a lot more info.
- ramp speed on the back side of the cam
- spring rate of the valve springs
- amount of pre-compression of the valve springs
- total mass of the retainer, valve, etc.
