View Poll Results: Engine vs Rotor Braking
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Engine vs Rotor Braking
09-13-2002, 02:37 PM
#11
I engine brake all the time. I love the sound. Plus I've had to turn my rotors once, and I think they are gettng warped again. That sucks.
If a mechanic or technician tells me it's bad to engine brake, then I will stop...
Another thing, if the car is always in gear, then it's easy to accelerate any time, without putting it back into gear.
If a mechanic or technician tells me it's bad to engine brake, then I will stop...
Another thing, if the car is always in gear, then it's easy to accelerate any time, without putting it back into gear.
09-13-2002, 04:14 PM
#12
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engine is for going, brakes are for stopping. engine braking should ALWAYS be a secondary braking force to your application of the STOP pedal. If you are not in gear while braking then you have no force being applied to the rear wheels and problems may arise...I believe for the same reasons why you should always be in gear while turning.
09-13-2002, 04:22 PM
#13
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Both it's not an either or thing. Anytime you lift of the throttle wiith the car in gear you are essentially using the engine's compression to slow down the drivetrain and thus the car.
Suppose for example you are driving along and approaching a redlight. You see the the lights are yellow in the other direction meaning the lights are going to go green any second. Do you:
a) do nothing and continue on your way hoping the the lights change before you get to the intersection, and more importantly that ALL of the cross traffic is stopped as you blast through,
b) depress the clutch and apply the brakes for a split second to slow you down by a bit so you aren't fully committing yourself to the anticipated green,
c) lift the throttle and gently slow down.
C of course
Here's another:
You are on a straight two lane road with a broken yellow line and no opposing traffic. You are cruising along at about 65 or 70. You come upon 3 trucks in your lane doing barely the speed limit and you decide to pass. Do you:
a) continue along at your current speed, pull out and slowly pass the trucks,
b) Gun it, pass the trucks and once you return to your lane you keep going at your new speed,
c) Gun it, pass the trucks and once you return to your lane depress the clutch and apply the brakes to return to your previous speed,
d) Gun it, pass the trucks and once you return to your lane lift on the throttle until you slow down to your previous speed.
I hope you choose D as your answer.
So you see there are lots of times when you use the engine to slow you down and just as many when you would use the brakes. Engine braking is used more times than you realize. Count how many times you reduce throttle to slow down while in gear. That's engine braking.
There aren't that many times you would use one instead of the other. It's a matter of degree. If you want to stop or slow decisively you use the brakes. If you just want to slow down a little over a longer less determined distance you'll probably use the engine.
I think that it's practically impossible to drive without engine braking. If there is someone out there that depresses the clutch EVERYTIME BEFORE they reduce the throttle...
Suppose for example you are driving along and approaching a redlight. You see the the lights are yellow in the other direction meaning the lights are going to go green any second. Do you:
a) do nothing and continue on your way hoping the the lights change before you get to the intersection, and more importantly that ALL of the cross traffic is stopped as you blast through,
b) depress the clutch and apply the brakes for a split second to slow you down by a bit so you aren't fully committing yourself to the anticipated green,
c) lift the throttle and gently slow down.
C of course
Here's another:
You are on a straight two lane road with a broken yellow line and no opposing traffic. You are cruising along at about 65 or 70. You come upon 3 trucks in your lane doing barely the speed limit and you decide to pass. Do you:
a) continue along at your current speed, pull out and slowly pass the trucks,
b) Gun it, pass the trucks and once you return to your lane you keep going at your new speed,
c) Gun it, pass the trucks and once you return to your lane depress the clutch and apply the brakes to return to your previous speed,
d) Gun it, pass the trucks and once you return to your lane lift on the throttle until you slow down to your previous speed.
I hope you choose D as your answer.
So you see there are lots of times when you use the engine to slow you down and just as many when you would use the brakes. Engine braking is used more times than you realize. Count how many times you reduce throttle to slow down while in gear. That's engine braking.
There aren't that many times you would use one instead of the other. It's a matter of degree. If you want to stop or slow decisively you use the brakes. If you just want to slow down a little over a longer less determined distance you'll probably use the engine.
I think that it's practically impossible to drive without engine braking. If there is someone out there that depresses the clutch EVERYTIME BEFORE they reduce the throttle...
09-13-2002, 04:55 PM
#14
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Of course you don't let the car "Freewheel" when you are slowing down but I don't think that was the question.
When most people talk about "Engine Braking" they are suggesting downshifting to slow the car down. In that case it is not a good idea for all the reasons cited above. Grabing too low a gear at too high a speed will over-rev the engine and cause some serious damage. It is also only giving you braking force on the rear wheels which under low traction conditions and done clumsily will be more apt to cause the rear end to come around.
The reason you downshift is to be in the correct gear to be on-throttle when you power out of a turn. When you grab that lower gear you are on the throttle so you are not using that downshift tto slow down with engine braking but rather to be in a gear that will let you be in the powerband on exit. There is no reason to downshift to slow down via engine braking unless you have lost your brakes.
When most people talk about "Engine Braking" they are suggesting downshifting to slow the car down. In that case it is not a good idea for all the reasons cited above. Grabing too low a gear at too high a speed will over-rev the engine and cause some serious damage. It is also only giving you braking force on the rear wheels which under low traction conditions and done clumsily will be more apt to cause the rear end to come around.
The reason you downshift is to be in the correct gear to be on-throttle when you power out of a turn. When you grab that lower gear you are on the throttle so you are not using that downshift tto slow down with engine braking but rather to be in a gear that will let you be in the powerband on exit. There is no reason to downshift to slow down via engine braking unless you have lost your brakes.
09-13-2002, 05:03 PM
#15
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Driving in the mountains I find that using decompression (in moderation) by being in the right gear while going downhill can save a lot of wear on the pads. Using the clutch for braking can cause violent weight shifts and as a general rule you should use the brakes for deceleration (especially racing). Sometimes while cruising, gearing down before a turn brings me a lot of pleasure but I never drag the clutch, I always try to match the rpm to the gear so that its a smooth transition. I think coasting in neutral is a bad habit to get into.
09-13-2002, 05:10 PM
#16
Properly done, downshifting and engine braking is the "art" of driving a manual transmission.
09-14-2002, 03:05 AM
#17
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Originally posted by ralper
Properly done, downshifting and engine braking is the "art" of driving a manual transmission.
Properly done, downshifting and engine braking is the "art" of driving a manual transmission.
09-14-2002, 03:36 AM
#18
As a matter of fact, Broadway was never a prairie and my old MG had pretty good brakes and stopping power. Sportscar and performance driving didn't start today.
You speak of being in the proper gear at the proper time, how does one accomplish that without downshifting? To which I add that downshifting is the "art" of driving a manual.
Using your engine in conjunction with your brakes to slow the car shouldn't be a problem. No one is suggesting that the proper way to do it is to overrev the engine or grab the clutch. That is precisely not the "art" of driving. That type of driving requires no skill at all.
You speak of being in the proper gear at the proper time, how does one accomplish that without downshifting? To which I add that downshifting is the "art" of driving a manual.
Using your engine in conjunction with your brakes to slow the car shouldn't be a problem. No one is suggesting that the proper way to do it is to overrev the engine or grab the clutch. That is precisely not the "art" of driving. That type of driving requires no skill at all.
09-14-2002, 08:46 PM
#20
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I can't believe many of these posts! The most fun I have with this car is artfully downshifting, which for me means that the clutch does not have to accellerate the engine. Matching the engine to the gears with throttle when downshifting in this car is like ballet. I almost never touch the brakes till I'm fairly slow in second gear. I don't think this harms the engine AT ALL when done correctly- you guys are missing half the fun! True, I rarely down-shift into first. I generally use 4500-6500RPM as the down-shift point in all other gears. This is a major part of what having a short-throw, close-ratio transmission is all about, and the S2K has the best I've ever driven. All brakes are emergency brakes.