Engine Fire
10-22-2001, 04:52 PM
#11
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Don't know if you have identified what caused the smoke/fire but I suspect it was oil from the engine.
Honda dealer hire $8/hour flunkies who leave old oil filter gaskets on, or don't tighten the oil filter, or hand tight the oil plug. The oil filter leaks, or the loose oil plug falls out after a few hundred miles. If you don't immediately shut off the engine, you may need a new set of engine bearings.
Best bet is to check it out first so you know what they screwed up, then give it to Honda to take care of it under Warranty.
Good luck.
Honda dealer hire $8/hour flunkies who leave old oil filter gaskets on, or don't tighten the oil filter, or hand tight the oil plug. The oil filter leaks, or the loose oil plug falls out after a few hundred miles. If you don't immediately shut off the engine, you may need a new set of engine bearings.
Best bet is to check it out first so you know what they screwed up, then give it to Honda to take care of it under Warranty.
Good luck.
10-22-2001, 04:55 PM
#12
OK kids here ya go:
Your problem seems to be oil related as you note a large pool after the event, you failed however to note how many miles were on the car after said oil change? If there were few, then the duel seal previously described may be viable. If the car had been driven a while the filter may have been improperly torqued. You also did not mention the brand of filter (specific make and model) some have failed for over torque. May have also installed a filter without a bypass. As for combustion; oil does not support cumbustion, nor does gasoline for that matter. Motor oil, in itself, will only smoke in contact with high heat (i.e. exhaust manifold). Misted oil vapor ( a petroleum product) may indeed support combustion if there is enough oxygen in the mixture. This is the same basic premise of gasoline combustion (optimal air to fuel ratio 14 to 7 ppm).
P.S. Flash point of oil is moot.....never got close....appears he hit a combustible ratio of air and fuel (i.e. petroleum product-oil).
Your problem seems to be oil related as you note a large pool after the event, you failed however to note how many miles were on the car after said oil change? If there were few, then the duel seal previously described may be viable. If the car had been driven a while the filter may have been improperly torqued. You also did not mention the brand of filter (specific make and model) some have failed for over torque. May have also installed a filter without a bypass. As for combustion; oil does not support cumbustion, nor does gasoline for that matter. Motor oil, in itself, will only smoke in contact with high heat (i.e. exhaust manifold). Misted oil vapor ( a petroleum product) may indeed support combustion if there is enough oxygen in the mixture. This is the same basic premise of gasoline combustion (optimal air to fuel ratio 14 to 7 ppm).
P.S. Flash point of oil is moot.....never got close....appears he hit a combustible ratio of air and fuel (i.e. petroleum product-oil).
10-22-2001, 05:03 PM
#13
My mistake! 5.7K miles on ODO and 3.8K to 4.0K on the ODO. Definitely not a dual seal!!!!! Filter was not properly torqued or mechanical failure of the filter (swage joint or bypass valve)
Utah
Utah
10-23-2001, 07:59 AM
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Oil does flash when sprayed on a hot source, I am living proof of seeing this. A few years ago I was working with hydraulics and a line on a drill rig burst spraying hydraulic oil all over the diesel's exhaust manifold. immediately I was caught in the path of a very angry fire ball that toasted the back of my jacket. As I ran away on fire, I remember myself saying, "Stop Drop and Roll, Stop Drop and Roll !!!" I fell to the ground rolling frantically as I was sprayed with several extinguishers. Not a fun experience, and although it was hydraulic oil and not engine oil they are both petroleum products, and under normal circumstances, "Not supposed to burn."
Walz
Walz
10-24-2001, 03:59 AM
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Tifosi Red
If you would want to install a fire extinguisher, Another option that you might want to look into is getting a small halon unit. I have raced stock cars (please no flames you left and right turners) for a while now and a few years ago when I started running alc. we got ourselves a small halon unit. You can probably mount it under your seat easily, and it will activate by pulling a cord. We invested in this because as you know, when alc. burns, you can't see it, but you can sure as well feel it, even thru a 2 layer 1 piece nomex suit. Another option, although this is winging it a bit, you may be able to alter the net at the passangers feet to accept a small extingisher. Good luck in your quest for safety.
Walz
If you would want to install a fire extinguisher, Another option that you might want to look into is getting a small halon unit. I have raced stock cars (please no flames you left and right turners) for a while now and a few years ago when I started running alc. we got ourselves a small halon unit. You can probably mount it under your seat easily, and it will activate by pulling a cord. We invested in this because as you know, when alc. burns, you can't see it, but you can sure as well feel it, even thru a 2 layer 1 piece nomex suit. Another option, although this is winging it a bit, you may be able to alter the net at the passangers feet to accept a small extingisher. Good luck in your quest for safety.
Walz
10-24-2001, 05:16 AM
#17
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Thanks Walz,
It would be nice to have a fully plumbed extinguisher set-up, maybe if I really start tracking the car I could go that route. The extinguisher in the net idea might work out quite well for a light duty bottle.
I found some other advice on the Australian board (also RHD) where they have a neat install on a bracket under the passenger seat.
I hope never to have to use an extinguisher on my or anyone else's car but I think of it like insurance - you only miss it when you really need it!
It would be nice to have a fully plumbed extinguisher set-up, maybe if I really start tracking the car I could go that route. The extinguisher in the net idea might work out quite well for a light duty bottle.
I found some other advice on the Australian board (also RHD) where they have a neat install on a bracket under the passenger seat.
I hope never to have to use an extinguisher on my or anyone else's car but I think of it like insurance - you only miss it when you really need it!
10-24-2001, 07:06 AM
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Hey guys,
Just to give everyone an update. I contacted a lawyer first. He told me to contact my insurance company first to get the immediate situation taken care of. (towing out of the boonies, rental car...etc) I guess the insurance company will be the ones to determine whether they will pay or Honda will pay.
So all i can do now is wait.
Utah...Thanks for the PM I'll let you know if I can send it to you (the filter and gasket), but like I said, Its in the Ins. companies hands now.
Since its most likey... 99.9437165438254% chance to be exact ...Honda faulty workmanship at the oil change. How do you guys think Honda will take action?
Just to give everyone an update. I contacted a lawyer first. He told me to contact my insurance company first to get the immediate situation taken care of. (towing out of the boonies, rental car...etc) I guess the insurance company will be the ones to determine whether they will pay or Honda will pay.
So all i can do now is wait.
Utah...Thanks for the PM I'll let you know if I can send it to you (the filter and gasket), but like I said, Its in the Ins. companies hands now.
Since its most likey... 99.9437165438254% chance to be exact ...Honda faulty workmanship at the oil change. How do you guys think Honda will take action?
11-05-2001, 09:51 AM
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I got word back from Twin city honda in champaign
(man is this a long and slow process)
It was a leaking oil filter that caused the oil to ignite on the exhaust manifold...american honda is not responsible.
But Ohare honda (the guys that performed the oil change) IS!!
They are telling american honda and twin city honda that they are not responsible because its been 1100 miles since the change.
Funny they didn't even see the car yet...they must be really good to make an assumption like that....so good if fact they forgot how to change oil properly.
Any suggested course of action fellas????
(man is this a long and slow process)
It was a leaking oil filter that caused the oil to ignite on the exhaust manifold...american honda is not responsible.
But Ohare honda (the guys that performed the oil change) IS!!
They are telling american honda and twin city honda that they are not responsible because its been 1100 miles since the change.
Funny they didn't even see the car yet...they must be really good to make an assumption like that....so good if fact they forgot how to change oil properly.
Any suggested course of action fellas????