DIY: Convertible Top Patch - FINALLY POSTED WITH PICTURES AND INSTRUCTIONS
12-17-2014, 10:33 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
DIY: Convertible Top Patch - FINALLY POSTED WITH PICTURES AND INSTRUCTIONS
BACK STORY (DIY IS BELOW)
Like many of you, I have had more than my fair share of patching jobs that failed. I tried the black hole patch, I've tried Modifry's patching method, I've tried REI rip-tear products, I've even tried something similar to duct-tape, all of which have failed within a few months.
Also like many of you, I have the notorious tearing right next to my head on the drivers side, and next to my head on the passengers side panel going down. Being that this particular place is under strenuous pressure when the top goes up/down, and that I live in the pacific northwest (meaning with the rain here I'm constantly putting the top up/down) every patching job I've tried here has failed within a few months. Even the $120 bucks I shelled out for a professional person to patch only lasted six months before starting to tear through again. Being that I'm very proactive with my soft top, I only have two small pin-hole rips in it - not even enough to cause a leak, but knowing that if I keep putting it up/down that it'll eventually spread.
Yesterday I decided to put my foot down and started making some phone calls. The marine vinyl repair shop forwarded me to a flooring company, who then forwarded me to a plumbing company and they introduced me to Oatey's 16 oz PVC Shower Pan Liner Adhesive. What does the V stand for in PVC? Vinyl. I called up my buddy Pat the Chemical Engineer, and with his help we determined that PVC piping and vinyl share a weakness - tetrahydrofuran, the main ingredient in the product I listed above. What it does is causes the vinyl to break down when applied, and in a sense - liquefy (temporarily). When you apply it to a sheet of vinyl (heat it up first, a blow dryer will do), apply it to another sheet (also heated) and then stick them together, add 60 seconds of pressure, and let cure for 10 minutes (apply heat for a few minutes after bonding together) they become inseparable. When you try to peel them apart, it's impossible - the two sheets have pretty much become one.
I set out to patch my top using this method, and nervously applied the adhesive to the inside of my soft top where I would be putting the patch. I am aware that the inside of the soft top is not made of vinyl, but my friend stated that the adhesive would probably eat through the cloth and adhere to the vinyl anyways. The key - make sure you are patching your vinyl patch to your vinyl top (on the fabric inside). Most sheets of vinyl are one side vinyl, and the other side a smooth cloth type substance. You must use the vinyl side against the cloth interior of your soft top.
Step one of course is to GET RID OF THE DAMN BURRS ON THE BAR. I heated up my top with a blow dryer, used some rubbing alcohol to clean the spot, then used 220 grit sandpaper LIGHTLY on the inside of the top itself (recommended by my friend again) to give it a texture for the vinyl to better adhere to. After the spot was cleaned/sanded, I made sure all of the burrs were gone again. I then slid the patch over the top of the bar and coated it on the vinyl side with the adhesive. I then applied more adhesive to the interior of my top itself (generous amounts, just don't let it pool), pushed the patch down, and moved the bar so I could adhere the part that the bar was hiding from me. After I pressed down on the patch and smoothed out all of the edges (NO BUBBLES, VERY IMPORTANT) I then added the blow dryer again and heated it up. Once you start adding the adhesive, it sets pretty quickly - within a couple of minutes it becomes difficult to move the patch around anymore.
I let it cure overnight. When I came out this morning and even tried to pry up a edge, it wouldn't budge. For lack of a better way to describe it, it was no longer a patch - it had become one with my top (Neo - The Matrix). The pin hole that was there before was sealed shut with the adhesive (basically it broke the hole down and caused it to collapse in on itself and re-seal shut). It seemed like I would rip a hole in my top trying to get the patch off.
START OF THE DIY
Adhesive to Use - this shit is NASTY. Definitely wear gloves - I didn't bother and a few drips went down my hand. The next day the skin had burned off in that spot and it took a week or so to heal and itched like hell the entire time. Don't get it on your leather, it's extremely hard to get it off once it sets. Use LOTS of towels and coverings as the can's built-in applicator is messy to say the least. Plus you're going to be applying this with gravity working against you, so you're bound to drip some.
YOU CAN BUY IT HERE
Sandpaper I bought to clear the burrs off
The only other things you really need are a good pair of gloves, rubbing alcohol, towel, blow dryer and another person to help hold tools while you apply the adhesive. And of course - vinyl. Go to a fabric store and buy a few feet of it.
Sanding Method - Make SURE you use sandpaper that has a smooth side to it - you don't want to sand a hole into your top running the paper over the bar and against the top itself. You also want to use very rough sandpaper and lightly sand the spot on your top the patch is going in AFTER you clean the area with the rubbing alcohol. Sanding the area gives it a bit more texture for the glue to adhere to. Also lightly sand your patch's vinyl side once you have cut it to fit.
Make SURE you line up your patch correctly and cut the vinyl to fit - you want it so that when you raise/lower the top, the bar will not go over one of the ends of the patch. That way the bar itself cannot peel up one of the edges. Think of it as extra insurance, even though this glue is probably strong enough to hold up against that pressure. I used some drywall putty to mark the farthest positions of where the bar is able to go. Cut your patch so that it hangs at least another inch over the furthest position the bar can go. You can move the bar by hand when the top is half-way down - play with the position of the top to get it so that there's the least amount of pressure on the top. It makes it easier to apply the patch that way since you're working in such a confined space.
Once you're sanded and you have it all marked, cut out the patch and play with it a bit to make sure it's the right size and you have it in the right position. I rounded all of my corners off. You want the vinyl side of the patch against your vinyl top. I'm aware that the interior of the top isn't vinyl, but rather a sort of cloth-like substance. However, the adhesive we're using will eat through the cloth pretty much instantly and adhere to the vinyl. Any holes in your top will plug themselves if you use enough adhesive. The vinyl I bought cost me about $10 for a roll enough to do twenty patches and was also split-sided. One side was the vinyl and the other was a fabric backing. Make SURE you use the vinyl side against the top - as you can tell from the picture, the fabric is facing us. The added benefit is the fabric backing rolls nicely on the bar as the top goes up/down. You can color it black with a sharpee if you think it looks bad or want it to blend in from the interior. I left mine white so I could keep an eye on it and make sure that it isn't re-tearing.
Once you're ready to take the plunge, put your patch in position and heat up both sides of your top with a blow dryer. Be careful you don't burn your top by getting it too hot. The heat helps the adhesive set quicker and also intensifies the chemical reaction between the glue and the vinyl. Once it's heated up, start gluing. First position the bar (helps a ton to have a helper hold the bar while you glue, since the bar wants to spring back) at one end and add generous amounts of the adhesive to both the top and patch. Once that's done, gently roll the bar over the part you just glued, back and forth. You're using the bar's own pressure to press in the adhesive. While you are rolling the bar back and forth, get out the blow dryer again and add heat. I'd suggest rolling it back and forth a dozen or so times, making SURE that there aren't any bubbles and that the patch is laying flat. Once that's done, slide the bar to the opposite side of the area you haven't glued yet and repeat. THE MOST VULNERABLE AREA TO PEELING ARE THE EDGES! Hence, make SURE you glue the entire patch.
Once you think you've gotten it, the glue (with heat especially) only takes a few minutes to cure to 80%, and the last 20% takes a couple of days (I think it says on the can or something too). If you messed up and didn't get your patch in the right position, well, I don't know what to tell ya. If someone on here has any idea of how you might be able to pull it off without tearing your top, chime in! Heating it up more will only make it worse.
If you get any glue on your leather or carpet, (again it helps to have a buddy helping you as a spotter too) use the rubbing alcohol and rag to wipe it off IMMEDIATELY. I still have a little chunk on my passenger seat that refuses to come off.
Mission accomplished. Drink a beer.
IMPORTANT AGAIN: Make sure you get the patch right on the first try because it isn't going to come off after the adhesive sets, unless you want to rip a large chunk out of your top!
The ONLY thing I've noticed that's been detrimental to this method of patching is that the patch is so thick that it's been putting increased strain on the electric motor that's responsible for raising and lowering the top. I just noticed that it's sounding a bit more strained and I have to help the top close sometimes (when it's below 40 outside) to get it close enough to the seals for the latch to work. However, there are zero leaks to this date (03/16/2015). The thickness of the patch, even though it puts more strain on the motor, also makes for a long-lasting solution.
Like many of you, I have had more than my fair share of patching jobs that failed. I tried the black hole patch, I've tried Modifry's patching method, I've tried REI rip-tear products, I've even tried something similar to duct-tape, all of which have failed within a few months.
Also like many of you, I have the notorious tearing right next to my head on the drivers side, and next to my head on the passengers side panel going down. Being that this particular place is under strenuous pressure when the top goes up/down, and that I live in the pacific northwest (meaning with the rain here I'm constantly putting the top up/down) every patching job I've tried here has failed within a few months. Even the $120 bucks I shelled out for a professional person to patch only lasted six months before starting to tear through again. Being that I'm very proactive with my soft top, I only have two small pin-hole rips in it - not even enough to cause a leak, but knowing that if I keep putting it up/down that it'll eventually spread.
Yesterday I decided to put my foot down and started making some phone calls. The marine vinyl repair shop forwarded me to a flooring company, who then forwarded me to a plumbing company and they introduced me to Oatey's 16 oz PVC Shower Pan Liner Adhesive. What does the V stand for in PVC? Vinyl. I called up my buddy Pat the Chemical Engineer, and with his help we determined that PVC piping and vinyl share a weakness - tetrahydrofuran, the main ingredient in the product I listed above. What it does is causes the vinyl to break down when applied, and in a sense - liquefy (temporarily). When you apply it to a sheet of vinyl (heat it up first, a blow dryer will do), apply it to another sheet (also heated) and then stick them together, add 60 seconds of pressure, and let cure for 10 minutes (apply heat for a few minutes after bonding together) they become inseparable. When you try to peel them apart, it's impossible - the two sheets have pretty much become one.
I set out to patch my top using this method, and nervously applied the adhesive to the inside of my soft top where I would be putting the patch. I am aware that the inside of the soft top is not made of vinyl, but my friend stated that the adhesive would probably eat through the cloth and adhere to the vinyl anyways. The key - make sure you are patching your vinyl patch to your vinyl top (on the fabric inside). Most sheets of vinyl are one side vinyl, and the other side a smooth cloth type substance. You must use the vinyl side against the cloth interior of your soft top.
Step one of course is to GET RID OF THE DAMN BURRS ON THE BAR. I heated up my top with a blow dryer, used some rubbing alcohol to clean the spot, then used 220 grit sandpaper LIGHTLY on the inside of the top itself (recommended by my friend again) to give it a texture for the vinyl to better adhere to. After the spot was cleaned/sanded, I made sure all of the burrs were gone again. I then slid the patch over the top of the bar and coated it on the vinyl side with the adhesive. I then applied more adhesive to the interior of my top itself (generous amounts, just don't let it pool), pushed the patch down, and moved the bar so I could adhere the part that the bar was hiding from me. After I pressed down on the patch and smoothed out all of the edges (NO BUBBLES, VERY IMPORTANT) I then added the blow dryer again and heated it up. Once you start adding the adhesive, it sets pretty quickly - within a couple of minutes it becomes difficult to move the patch around anymore.
I let it cure overnight. When I came out this morning and even tried to pry up a edge, it wouldn't budge. For lack of a better way to describe it, it was no longer a patch - it had become one with my top (Neo - The Matrix). The pin hole that was there before was sealed shut with the adhesive (basically it broke the hole down and caused it to collapse in on itself and re-seal shut). It seemed like I would rip a hole in my top trying to get the patch off.
START OF THE DIY
Adhesive to Use - this shit is NASTY. Definitely wear gloves - I didn't bother and a few drips went down my hand. The next day the skin had burned off in that spot and it took a week or so to heal and itched like hell the entire time. Don't get it on your leather, it's extremely hard to get it off once it sets. Use LOTS of towels and coverings as the can's built-in applicator is messy to say the least. Plus you're going to be applying this with gravity working against you, so you're bound to drip some.
YOU CAN BUY IT HERE
Sandpaper I bought to clear the burrs off
The only other things you really need are a good pair of gloves, rubbing alcohol, towel, blow dryer and another person to help hold tools while you apply the adhesive. And of course - vinyl. Go to a fabric store and buy a few feet of it.
Sanding Method - Make SURE you use sandpaper that has a smooth side to it - you don't want to sand a hole into your top running the paper over the bar and against the top itself. You also want to use very rough sandpaper and lightly sand the spot on your top the patch is going in AFTER you clean the area with the rubbing alcohol. Sanding the area gives it a bit more texture for the glue to adhere to. Also lightly sand your patch's vinyl side once you have cut it to fit.
Make SURE you line up your patch correctly and cut the vinyl to fit - you want it so that when you raise/lower the top, the bar will not go over one of the ends of the patch. That way the bar itself cannot peel up one of the edges. Think of it as extra insurance, even though this glue is probably strong enough to hold up against that pressure. I used some drywall putty to mark the farthest positions of where the bar is able to go. Cut your patch so that it hangs at least another inch over the furthest position the bar can go. You can move the bar by hand when the top is half-way down - play with the position of the top to get it so that there's the least amount of pressure on the top. It makes it easier to apply the patch that way since you're working in such a confined space.
Once you're sanded and you have it all marked, cut out the patch and play with it a bit to make sure it's the right size and you have it in the right position. I rounded all of my corners off. You want the vinyl side of the patch against your vinyl top. I'm aware that the interior of the top isn't vinyl, but rather a sort of cloth-like substance. However, the adhesive we're using will eat through the cloth pretty much instantly and adhere to the vinyl. Any holes in your top will plug themselves if you use enough adhesive. The vinyl I bought cost me about $10 for a roll enough to do twenty patches and was also split-sided. One side was the vinyl and the other was a fabric backing. Make SURE you use the vinyl side against the top - as you can tell from the picture, the fabric is facing us. The added benefit is the fabric backing rolls nicely on the bar as the top goes up/down. You can color it black with a sharpee if you think it looks bad or want it to blend in from the interior. I left mine white so I could keep an eye on it and make sure that it isn't re-tearing.
Once you're ready to take the plunge, put your patch in position and heat up both sides of your top with a blow dryer. Be careful you don't burn your top by getting it too hot. The heat helps the adhesive set quicker and also intensifies the chemical reaction between the glue and the vinyl. Once it's heated up, start gluing. First position the bar (helps a ton to have a helper hold the bar while you glue, since the bar wants to spring back) at one end and add generous amounts of the adhesive to both the top and patch. Once that's done, gently roll the bar over the part you just glued, back and forth. You're using the bar's own pressure to press in the adhesive. While you are rolling the bar back and forth, get out the blow dryer again and add heat. I'd suggest rolling it back and forth a dozen or so times, making SURE that there aren't any bubbles and that the patch is laying flat. Once that's done, slide the bar to the opposite side of the area you haven't glued yet and repeat. THE MOST VULNERABLE AREA TO PEELING ARE THE EDGES! Hence, make SURE you glue the entire patch.
Once you think you've gotten it, the glue (with heat especially) only takes a few minutes to cure to 80%, and the last 20% takes a couple of days (I think it says on the can or something too). If you messed up and didn't get your patch in the right position, well, I don't know what to tell ya. If someone on here has any idea of how you might be able to pull it off without tearing your top, chime in! Heating it up more will only make it worse.
If you get any glue on your leather or carpet, (again it helps to have a buddy helping you as a spotter too) use the rubbing alcohol and rag to wipe it off IMMEDIATELY. I still have a little chunk on my passenger seat that refuses to come off.
Mission accomplished. Drink a beer.
IMPORTANT AGAIN: Make sure you get the patch right on the first try because it isn't going to come off after the adhesive sets, unless you want to rip a large chunk out of your top!
The ONLY thing I've noticed that's been detrimental to this method of patching is that the patch is so thick that it's been putting increased strain on the electric motor that's responsible for raising and lowering the top. I just noticed that it's sounding a bit more strained and I have to help the top close sometimes (when it's below 40 outside) to get it close enough to the seals for the latch to work. However, there are zero leaks to this date (03/16/2015). The thickness of the patch, even though it puts more strain on the motor, also makes for a long-lasting solution.
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sebo (09-07-2018)
12-17-2014, 10:59 AM
#2
Perfect timing! I have some holes starting to form. Its temporarily patched with gorilla tape while I ordered the black patches. It seems as if your method is the one to do though. Gives me another year to save for a new top.
12-17-2014, 12:40 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
I think pretty much anything with that chemical I posted above in it will do the same thing. The Home Depot stuff is just the best bang for your buck in terms of cheapness and availability. Any plumbing place would also have some on hand too.
And just to reiterate - take your time lining the patch up and sizing it accordingly because it is not going to come off once the adhesive sets. I bought enough vinyl to do the job 10x over (marine vinyl, cost about $5.00 for a half yard of it) so I could cut different patches out and see what shape worked best. As always, round out your edges too. Even with the adhesive, the bar rolling against a straight edge might be able to peel it up a bit. I made my patch the exact size so that the bar never rolls over an edge at either end. My patch extends about 1/2" past the furthest the bar will roll.
I'll add all these tips in my write-up once I'm finished. I need to patch my other side still today.
And just to reiterate - take your time lining the patch up and sizing it accordingly because it is not going to come off once the adhesive sets. I bought enough vinyl to do the job 10x over (marine vinyl, cost about $5.00 for a half yard of it) so I could cut different patches out and see what shape worked best. As always, round out your edges too. Even with the adhesive, the bar rolling against a straight edge might be able to peel it up a bit. I made my patch the exact size so that the bar never rolls over an edge at either end. My patch extends about 1/2" past the furthest the bar will roll.
I'll add all these tips in my write-up once I'm finished. I need to patch my other side still today.
12-17-2014, 03:15 PM
#5
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Ugly but works extremely well, Joanne fabrics canvas fabric, and goop. If you are careful you can make a very nice square patch. Has been holding up to as low as 28 ish degrees. Untested at single digit temps, not sure if it even makes a difference.
12-18-2014, 01:09 AM
#6
I've had good luck with vinyl from a fabric store as well as old top material and rubber cement on a few different patches. The key is applying the rubber cement in accordance with the directions on the jar.
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03-02-2015, 04:58 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
Just a quick update - patches still holding with no signs of peeling off. I also used this method on my pickup truck's vinyl seat sides and it's still holding too - another high pressure situation. I'll try and get some pics up soon for a formal DIY.
