MIKE_S2K.NL

Could it be that this feature is on the US s2000 only?
I've got an European S2000 and no clutch pressing is required to start the engine...

21337R

Less idiots in Europe?

Or maybe, less bs lawsuits.

slipstream444

Of course all wear in the engine is worst at startup - however, thrust bearings are "loaded" up at start - when you push and hold in your clutch to start your car. It makes sense to reduce or eliminate any load possible when lubrication is pretty much non-existent.

I spoke with Larry (the "Old One") at Endyne and he said they specifically do not use a high spring force pressure plate (such as the ACT) due to the fact they have seen crank walk in the S2000, and due to the fact the design of the S2000's thrust bearings (washers) - specifically the way they are oiled - result in the engine not accommodating high thrust loads. He specifically noted the main sources of wear are starting and idling with the clutch pushed in (again - regardless if the car is in gear or not) - and if you are using a high spring load pressure plate. They specifically use the Carbonetics twin carbon disc clutch in a number of their cars (that discussion is covered in another post dealing with the HTG clutch setup).
I've also spoken with John at Inline Pro and he has also seen crank walk in the S2000 due to the same circumstances noted above.
So you have the most experienced and respected Honda modifier (Endyne has been modifying Hondas pretty much since they arrived in the U.S.!), and one of the more recent but highly respected modifiers both saying the same thing - they obviously know what they're talking about.
You can choose to believe it or not. Just because someone hasn't come to you personally and told you there was an issue doesn't mean it doesn't exist (that's just a little on the arrogant side don't you think) - you actually have to do some work and research it.
I have done the research and done you the favor of sharing the information. That's what this site is about.
I can tell you that folks like Road Rage and XViper quit contributing because of individuals who posted for the sake of seeing their words - not to contribute. Road Rage and XViper posted a significant amount of information that helped thousands of S2000 owners, but were turned off by individuals that wanted to argue about a point simply to argue, and not to contribute. I'd appreciate it if you considered that next time. If you want to argue a point (and there's a difference between arguing and asking a question), at least come prepared - do the research and have the facts. If you have done the research and feel you have more relevant information - then by all means please site your research and contribute.

takeshi

I'm not sure exactly but from what I've seen on limited trips over there they do seem to be more about personal responsibility...

99SH

If you're talking race motors, thats a different issue. But I haven't heard (and no one's reported) any "crank walk" issues here.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here and would like to see some real life supporting evidence before we go out claiming improvements in thrust life bearing on stock motors/cluthces. OR even on the aftermarket clutches such as the HTG setup, no one has reported bearing failures.

spectacle

Ok I read this twice and I am puzzled. Please explain this part again- how are you reducing wear in anything by having the clutch engaged when the car starts? If anything that just puts more load on the crank because it has to turn the clutch assembly and tranny shaft too in addtion to everything it usually does in the bottom end of the motor.

In short, this looks like it would make things worse. I like the security and convience implications, but that's it.

This is definitely something I wouldn't recommend doing to "reduce wear" on anything. But I'm curious to see what your explanation is for my question.

slipstream444

I agree. Their drivers are overall better trained, more responsible, and follow the rules carefully.
Much of that is due to how much it cost to get your driver's licence in the first place. In Germany, for instance, you have to pay around $2000 for the chance to get your licence (to take the test). If you fail the test - you have to wait a period of time to take it again - and then have to pay the $2000 for the second chance. It's easier to loose your license, and the fines and penalties are steeper as well, so you don't see nearly the amount of the crazy crap you see here.

slipstream444

I'm not going to re-write the entire write-up for you - and there's only so many ways it can be explained. Go back and read everything I have posted on the first page and be more specific about what you don't understand. If that doesn't help - I don't know what to tell you. It's all there.

There is a difference between a thrust load and an increase in rotational intertia. I want you to think about what you posted and then explain why you think there's a greater load on the crankshaft and what kind of load that is. Here's a clue: it's not a thrust load, so therefore your point is irrelevant to the subject at hand.
You made a statement without backing up your point with facts or supporting information. This goes back to someone posting for the sake of posting and not to contribute. With that being said: here's some information that's off subject, but may help you think about what's actually happening.

First: what else has to be "spun" when you start with the car in neutral and the clutch NOT pushed in?
Answer: the clutch disk and the input shaft of the transmission.
Those items do NOT increase the thrust load on the crank. In fact, those items have NO effect on the crank as the starter is turning then engine over from a dead stop. Furthermore, the clutch disc and input shaft create a more balanced system for the starter to do work (the crank on one end and the input shaft and clutch disc on the other).
There is no appreciable increase in drag due to the fact the thrust load created by pressing in the clutch to start the car is greater than the energy required to accelerate the disc and input shaft during the start.

Hopefully reading all the information on the previous page and reading this explanation have satisfied your "curiosity".

spectacle

Despite all your "evidence" and whatnot (and believe me I read it, or at least tried to), none of this makes any sense to me. Where is this fast wearing thrust washer (or bearing or whatever you call it in your next post) and how does it not wear faster by keeping the clutch engaged?

You say I have no evidence but I really don't need much because I'm not trying to prove anything. You're the one advising people to circumvent a safety feature in the name of less wear and tear...after all, I'd hate for someone to pay for chiropractor needlessly.

So post up pics of these worn bearings and walked cranks so we can all be convinced. Until you do, this is just another mod without a dyno to back it up. I'll make it even easier, link us to a thread where someone walked their crank because they didnt bypass their clutch. Don't worry, I'll wait.

SpitfireS

spectacle Posted on Aug 6 2008, 07:26 PM
Allready answered
slipstream444 Posted: Aug 6 2008, 04:02 PM
[QUOTE]He (Larry