jason4207

I got my used 02 a couple weeks ago. I didn't inspect the air filter till after I bought it, and saw that it is pretty dirty. Now I know I want a new one, but I'm thinking on going ahead and "upgrading". I've been reading a ton of posts which have both answered a lot of ?s and caused more confusion. I really don't care about sound that much, but am really looking for a performance boost. I am considering AEM CAI, but getting a drop-in K&N or even spoon seems to be just as good considering the hydrolock problem. And after some recent reads, I almost want to get an OEM filter. My car is a daily driver so If it's raining hard and I have to be at work I just can't call in sick. This recent hurricane made me glad I hadn't installed the AEM yet. I am in Atlanta on buisness, and it was horrible here. I can't imagine being any further south.

Anyway, the real reason for this post is an idea that came to me. Imagine running 2 pipes, aluminum, flexible, or even PVC, from the faux air ducts to the OEM airbox. Put in the air filter of you choice. You could stop there, but why? Imagine putting an electric high CFM fan at the junction where the pipes meet the airbox. Now wire the fan so that the ignition has to be on for it to run (don't want to kill the battery), and run a control knob into the console so you can manually control the speed, or turn it off completely. Also, rig the air box to seal the normal air intake horn when the fan is on full (this part may be more trouble than it's worth). The idea here is:
1. Your pulling in fresh cold air, and lots of it.
2. With the normal air intake horn sealed, your not pulling any hot air at all.
3. When sitting still at idle a slight pressure is building in the sealed air box (forced induction?) and this might allow for a strong take-off.
4. If it is raining, turn off the fan. If you go through any puddles there won't be enough vacuum to pull water into the OEM air box. Air will be able to enter through the stock horn.

Potential Problems (not sure on these, please respond with knowledge):
1. Will the amps pulled by the fan cause problems with the ignition?
2. Will it cause the car to run too lean?
3. If you reset the ECU w/ the fan on, what happens with it off?

Please let me know what you think, and offer any suggestions.

Also, I bought a K&N oil filter. I've read some posts about how good the OEM Honda filter is (the PVX I think), and am wondering if I should take the K&N back. I also bought some 10W-30 Castrol Syntec, but after reading some posts I want some AMSOIL. Should I return the Castrol?

Thanks

F20_C

I would stick to the AEM intake. If your are worried about hydrolock get a snorkel(Spoon/Muz) with a good drop-in filter. This intake idea sounds like a recipe for diaster and will most likely look like poo. You should stick with what has been dyno tested and used by others with good results. JMHP

Wisconsin S2k

agreed. there is more to engineering a proper CAI then just running pipes to someplace it can draw cooler air.

jason4207

I read in another post where someone had routed some piping to their comtech to give it more cold air (the database won't let me search right now). There is also a post where someone had put in a Weapon R. They had routed it to be a CAI, and said if they could put a box around their filter it would be perfect. Mine is a similar idea, just using the OEM airbox. I'm not sure how throttle response works though. Is it related to giving the intake too much air (not enough negative pressure), or is it based on the length of the pipe. I think it's pipe length. As far as looking bad, it's all what you put into it. Plus it will almost be invisible as the OEM airbox and fenders will hide everything. All the piping would come out the bottom of the airbox. I'm also curious about the consequences of tapping into the power supply.

Just a note: I probably won't do this mod, but am very curious if any one very familiar with the physics of intakes knows if it is a good idea? If it were engineered right would it be viable?

tizbad2k

there is a lot to consider, and coming up with creative ideas is good, but you have to keep in mind the possible dangers.

1. You dont seem to have eliminated the problem of hydrolock , the routing of hoses from the faux brake ducts seems to be inviting water in. Especially at speed considering the ram effect the from the duct placement.

2. Electric fans regardless of cfm, seem (to me atleast) to be prone to breakage due to the non constant vacuum created by the engine. As the pull of air from the engine fluctuates the fan blades will actually want to change directions, which will cause havoc to the electrical parts and create stress on the blades.

3. Air flow needs to be Laminar flow to be ideal, this type of flow describes the air flowing parallel to the surface of its container and with seperate sections of it at different speeds. To obtain laminar flow the inner surfaces of the hosing will have to be just right, there is no type of store bought ducting hose that will achieve laminar flow. Without laminar flow you will see turbulence which will lead to severe innefiencies.

Of the three things I mentioned above, the first two are most important. Water is a big no no, and broken blades is also pretty bad. The inneffiency from lack of laminar flow could be overcome by the sheer mass flow, but i would sitll prefer different location.

But im in no way saying you cant make a good system, just suggesting that the s2k is probably not the best place to try such risky ideas.

What you could try is some sort of ram setup from the location you specified but have a controller for it which would either shut it off or redirect the flow, at either your discretion, or with some sort of sensor. BUt even my idea sounds expensive and dangerous.

Be safe, whatever you do.

Wisconsin S2k

how high-flowing of a fan are you proposing to use? considering our engine in stock form requires upwards of 310 CFM at the intake at it's highest point, the fan would have to be pushing more than that as to not impede air flow. Also you are likely not going to gain more power than what you're losing to the fan. If memory serves correctly, this was discussed once before. Someone mentioned that even if you hook the fan up to the battery, the alternator will suck a few more hp from the engine to continue to recharge the battery. Batteries are pretty much made to start the car. To my knowledge, electrical components all run off the power feed of the alternator once the car is started. If I'm incorrect on any of this someone please correct me.

just adding a little more to the already well written post tizbad made

jason4207

Yes, 1 of my concerns is if the amps pulled from the fan would make the alternator do more work--> put more resistence on the engine. I'm just not exactly sure how it works. If you had a dead battery, and jumped your car, would the alternator work any harder to charge the battery, or would it just charge at the same rate it always does? Another concern is the ignition. Would the added amp draw subtract from the potential power that could be delivered to the ignition--> spark.

As far as CFM, I'm glad you know the CFM intake of the s2k. I was originally thinking of a 12" fan. I've got a 92mm fan that puts out 119CFM, so I would think you could get a 12" fan that puts out 310+CFM, but I really don't know for sure.

If you left the stock airhorn alone, that might help to relieve tension placed on the fan blades.

With the ability to turn the fan off in rainy conditions you would eliminate a pure vacuum on the low intake pipes. Sure their would be some ram air, but if the pipes became submerged the weight of the water would stop itself from flowing all the way up. The air would be able to enter from the stock airhorn, relieving the pressure. Plus the water would have to flow up and fill the entire airbox to cause hydrolock (I think). Another idea is to have a removable flap that can be attached to the bottom interior of the OEM airbox thereby completely eliminating the whole CAI system. You could quickly install it it is raining or if you're worried that it might rain.

If you could use aluminum piping, or some other stiff walled piping with smooth interior walls, you could achieve laminer flow. This could be pretty costly though. I'm not sure how much it costs to have aluminum pipes custom bent. PVC might work if you could get smooth transistion pieces(not 90 degrees).

Does anyone have any thoughts on the effect of the fan building up pressure in the airbox when the car is sitting still at idle? Would this give a better take-off?

In the end the fan part might not be a great idea, but having 2 ram air pipes seems pretty cool to me. I think I'm just going to order a drop-in K&N for now. Does anyone know where the cheapest place to get one is? Ebay has them for $53-55 shipped. I think Advance will order one for me for a similar price.

mbilderback

Electrical components do not run off the alternator when the car is running. Have you ever seen a car with a dead battery that has been push-started? The lights flicker, things run poorly. The alternator actually makes some really dirty power. That power is ONLY used to charge the battery. Luckily, the alternator is designed stock to replace more than the electronics require. This allows the battery to actually recharge when the engine is running, otherwise you'd loose a bit of battery every time you started the car and never get it back.

Look at the battery for what it is, a storage cell for electricity. Everything requiring power comes out of the battery, no exceptions. The alternator just feeds energy back into the battery. This allows the battery to provide a clean, consistent, and strong charge to all the components of the car.

jason4207

mbilderback,
Am I correct in thinking the alternator charges the battery at a constant rate independent of the amount of charge in the battery, or the load on the battery? Is the amount of charging power put out by the alternator coincide with the RPMs of the engine? I've had to jumpstart people before, and I've found if I rev my engine up and hold it just before and during the attempted jump that the other car has an easier time starting. Thanks for the knowledge.

mbilderback

The alternator will vary in charge depending on engine speed, not draw. This is due to increased RPM of the alternator in direct correlation with increased RPM of the engine. So, yes, the alternator will vary in charge, but it should always be higher than the draw. If not, you need a stronger alternator or fewer electronic toys.