DBW yes or no?
11-18-2015, 03:19 PM
#2
No, there's nothing wrong with it on the S2000. There are numerous advantages, including much cheaper tuning options. The next poster will probably be someone with a 2001 model who will swear up and down that he once drove his friend's 2007 and it felt "laggy," but it will be pure butt-dyno. The system works fine.
11-18-2015, 03:40 PM
#3
I can attest to what thomsbrain said. I have a 2007 now and had a 2002 before and definitely like the AP2 better. I honestly don't really notice any lag with the DBW system. If you plan on tuning in the future, get an AP2. You'll make more hp and tq than an AP1 and you won't have to pay for an AEM EMS, just FlashPro.
11-18-2015, 03:41 PM
#4
Registered User
The 'DBW' lag can be visually tested. Just take the intake off and the little cover over the pedal position sensor off. Then turn the ignition on and see how quickly the throttle plate moves as you turn manually turn throttle spring.
To me it moves just as responsively as a mechanical throttle with the added benefit of making the car smoother to drive at low rpm once you adjust the throttle maps via reflash.
To me it moves just as responsively as a mechanical throttle with the added benefit of making the car smoother to drive at low rpm once you adjust the throttle maps via reflash.
11-18-2015, 03:56 PM
#5
Technically DBW still uses a throttle cable, it just doesn't go on the intake manifold. Also an electronic actuator works pretty darn quick. Ever seen how fast the starter pinion pops out and back in?
11-18-2015, 04:02 PM
#6
Registered User
The mechanical throttle is directly connected to the gas pedal via a cable. Nothing to slow input.
The DBW throttle runs via cable to the black box with the position sensor and then thru a bog slow electrical connection to the throttle. If we could just speed this last stage up to faster than 186,000 miles a second we could eliminate the "lag." I'll bet most of us are driving DBW cars every day and not noticing or knowing. I didn't know one of my trucks was DBW for a couple of years when I noticed there was no cable to the throttle body!
DBW not only gets smoother throttle response the ECU can be FlashPro tuned for startling (Yikes!) mid range power and acceleration. VTEC at 3,600rpm gives me nearly 5,000rpm of WOT before the rev limiter kicks in. You also get Stability Assist and traction control with the DBW cars.
Heck, the Formula 1 cars even have BBW -- brake by wire.
The 2006+ models are the most desirable by my criteria. Your mileage may vary.
-- Chuck
The DBW throttle runs via cable to the black box with the position sensor and then thru a bog slow electrical connection to the throttle. If we could just speed this last stage up to faster than 186,000 miles a second we could eliminate the "lag." I'll bet most of us are driving DBW cars every day and not noticing or knowing. I didn't know one of my trucks was DBW for a couple of years when I noticed there was no cable to the throttle body!
DBW not only gets smoother throttle response the ECU can be FlashPro tuned for startling (Yikes!) mid range power and acceleration. VTEC at 3,600rpm gives me nearly 5,000rpm of WOT before the rev limiter kicks in. You also get Stability Assist and traction control with the DBW cars.
Heck, the Formula 1 cars even have BBW -- brake by wire.
The 2006+ models are the most desirable by my criteria. Your mileage may vary.
-- Chuck
11-18-2015, 04:07 PM
#7
there's nothing wrong with DBW. but I will say I prefer the cable for my own cars.
its not the fact that the actuator is slow that causes the lag. it the fact that the computer has to confirm that you did in fact ask for WOT by comparing the PPS signals. than look at the other vehicle conditions (speed, steering wheel angle, ect.) to determine how fast it is programed to give you full power or if its going to give you WOT at all.
its not the fact that the actuator is slow that causes the lag. it the fact that the computer has to confirm that you did in fact ask for WOT by comparing the PPS signals. than look at the other vehicle conditions (speed, steering wheel angle, ect.) to determine how fast it is programed to give you full power or if its going to give you WOT at all.
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11-18-2015, 05:58 PM
#8
if i had to do it again, i'd go DBW based on tunability with the Flashpro. Then i'd adjust my valves, install the CR stuff, change out the Flywheel, remove the CDV, and call it a day.
later
darcy
later
darcy
11-18-2015, 06:45 PM
#9
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One item concerning DBW cars, according to Billman and a ton of owners including myself, is that the exhaust valves tend to become tighter much earlier than the recommended adjustment time Honda provides. Be sure to have them adjusted starting around 25K miles or later.
I think having a newer car in better shape will be far more important than some perceived "lag" in the throttle. You will forget it about it in less than a minute.
I think having a newer car in better shape will be far more important than some perceived "lag" in the throttle. You will forget it about it in less than a minute.
11-18-2015, 07:05 PM
#10
As much as i love my 06 ap2 the slight hesitation or stutter at low rpms sometimes annoys me. Maybe its me but ive heard others mention about the dbw stutter at low rpms between lets say 2500 to 3500 r which my car does as well. My car is flashed with vtec set at 3800 rpms and at normal speeds and light throttle I can feel that its somewhat caught up between vtec and non vtec which makes it stutter. At wot there is no stutter at all.. Besides the stutter I'll say dbw all the way lol..
Ohhh and yes I agree with cosmo about his statement regarding the tighter valve clearances. I noticed my idle was a bit rough last year with 40k on the car and decided to have the valves adjusted. To my surprise all were tight as hell and once done the idle went back to its normal smooth way of being when I bought it years ago..
Ohhh and yes I agree with cosmo about his statement regarding the tighter valve clearances. I noticed my idle was a bit rough last year with 40k on the car and decided to have the valves adjusted. To my surprise all were tight as hell and once done the idle went back to its normal smooth way of being when I bought it years ago..