Chazmo

Hi guys,

I tried to get a clear picture searching old posts, but I couldn't.

Here's the deal... After 7500 miles I swapped the stock 16" wheels for 17s. On close inspection, the outside edges of the original fronts are cupped a little. I also tend to find that the car hunts a little on road crowns, perhaps more than normal for an average car. Of course, the S2000 is anything but average.

Anyway, is this cupping "normal" S2000 behavior given the original alignment specs, or is Neb out of alignment? I'll probably go in for an alignment soon, but I wanted to hear others' opinions to let me know if this'll be worth my time. And, of course, I'd like to avoid having more people have their hands on my car, if possible.

Would it be worth going into Honda for an alignment? My experiences with NTB have always been good.

My 4WD Prelude from '88 had to be aligned constantly, but I didn't expect this when I bought the S.

Thoughts?

boiler

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]Hi guys,

I tried to get a clear picture searching old posts, but I couldn't.

Here's the deal...

hyperpm

Sorry but I still don't know what "cupping" means? Any pics?

Chazmo

I'm not sure a picture will make it clear, Ed, but I'll shoot for one later. It basically shows uneven wear on the outside tread blocks of the tire, where each block is worn in a pattern, i.e., the leading edge of each tread block has worn more than the trailing edge, making each block look like a small ramp.

In any case, I'm going to take Bob's advice to heart. Neb needs an alignment. If other S2000s are getting completely even tire wear with factory settings, that cinches it.

I have the factory specs and procedure in the service manual, and I'll copy it today for the NTB techs so they'll know how to do it. I'm glad I asked; I'd hate to rub down my new S-03s before their time.

Billman250

What you described sounds like "feathering", usually attributed to to much toe in (in your case, outside wear). Cupping is where treads are worn out on random spots of the tire, caused by bad shocks (tire hopping up and down, actually leaving the road surface many times per second.

Chazmo

I was planning to correct this post after I got my alignment done on Saturday. Feathering is indeed what I meant, billman. And, yup, I think the issue is toe.

So, I take it from Bob above that since his car has even tire wear, my toe is probably off. I didn't hit any major bumps or anything during the time I had the S-02s on the car, so I don't know how that would've happened... Perhaps the car was that way when I received it from the dealership...

Thanks, guys!

boiler

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Chazmo
[B]I was planning to correct this post after I got my alignment done on Saturday.

Chazmo

OK, Bob. Thanks for clarifying. Have you changed your alignment since you bought your car? Just checking.

Anyway, I agree. The way I read the alignment specs, both front and rear are indeed supposed to have negative camber (knock-kneed). This supports your comment that the insides of the tires should be expected to wear quicker than the outsides. The fronts, at -0deg30', are only slightly cambered, so I would not expect the difference to be appreciable. The rears, at -1deg30', would be more noticeable over time.

At 0 toe spec'd in front, there should be no feathering (so I'm sure mine are off, as it's my fronts that show the problem). The rears are spec'd for toe in (pigeon-toed) which I think would feather the outside edge of the tire slightly.

So, I'm looking forward to getting this done. I'll bet Neb will feel a whole lot more stable afterwards!

jguerdat

My original tires were swapped left-to-right to try to make 'em last a bit longer (at about 9500 miles). This brought out a horrendous vibration over about 70 mph. Took it back and they rebalanced on a machine in the Porsche shop that loads the tire while balancing which helped for a few miles but essentially did little. Replacing the tires was the cure. My suspicion is that there was cupping on at least some edges that wasn't noticeable until the load was different. When I had an alignment done, it was all over the map.

It's too late for these tires but my strong recommendation for any new owner is to have a proper alignment done before or shortly after delivery.

Chazmo

, Jeff. Beyond wear, the vibration might've also been caused by one of your tires having a flat spot... I've been through that too after slamming a pothole (not in my S). I don't know if the Bridgestone S-02s are subject to that kinda thing, but I suspect it's possible.

Anyway, I guess it's worth letting the techs touch Neb to get this alignment done. I've been a bit wary of that, and only been back to the dealer to get my sparkplugs done last year. The S service manual has about 6 pages of explicit directions on the order that this has to be done; I'll have to make sure the alignment shop follows this religiously.

Thanks, guys!