Cold start difficulty
05-17-2006 | 06:16 AM
#1
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From: A Quiet Place
Cold start difficulty
For the last few weeks, when I've gone out in the morning to head to work, or start the car up whenever it's been sitting for a couple of hours, it needs to crank a few more times than normal to turn over. The weather here has been the same for about a month, so it's not the ECU adjusting. Other than the initial startup, the car is 100%. The funny thing is the problem only occurs on a cold start. Any other time it jumps to life. I'm wondering if I'm in need of some new spark plugs or possibly a battery. I highly doubt it's the plugs, but the car is 2 1/2 years old and has never had the battery changed. Anybody got any suggestions on what to check?
05-17-2006 | 06:28 AM
#2
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Do the following to see if it will eliminate fuel pressure as a possible problem:
On that first cold start, cycle the fuel pump twice before hitting the start button. Turn the key to full ON and wait 2 - 3 seconds for the pump to pressurize the system. Then turn OFF and back on again for 2 - 3 seconds, then hit the start button. Anything change?
If this makes it better, then it's possible you have a situation with getting a good blast of fuel into the engine at cold start. It could be slightly dirty injectors, bad fuel pressure regulator, clogged fuel sock, weak fuel pump.
Of course, you can't overlook common things like air filter, plugs. When it does fire, does it do the usual higher idle for a short time?
Oh, you're not giving it gas when you start the car, are you?
On that first cold start, cycle the fuel pump twice before hitting the start button. Turn the key to full ON and wait 2 - 3 seconds for the pump to pressurize the system. Then turn OFF and back on again for 2 - 3 seconds, then hit the start button. Anything change?
If this makes it better, then it's possible you have a situation with getting a good blast of fuel into the engine at cold start. It could be slightly dirty injectors, bad fuel pressure regulator, clogged fuel sock, weak fuel pump.
Of course, you can't overlook common things like air filter, plugs. When it does fire, does it do the usual higher idle for a short time?
Oh, you're not giving it gas when you start the car, are you?
05-17-2006 | 12:07 PM
#3
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From: A Quiet Place
[QUOTE=xviper,May 17 2006, 10:28 AM]Do the following to see if it will eliminate fuel pressure as a possible problem:
On that first cold start, cycle the fuel pump twice before hitting the start button.
On that first cold start, cycle the fuel pump twice before hitting the start button.
05-18-2006 | 05:14 AM
#5
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From: Boston
Could be that your car does not like the new fuel formulation that substitutes ethanol for MBTE.
For me, everything was fine until they started to change over to 10% ethanol in the spring. No CEL's, no other drivability problems, and all my cars receive maximum maintenance.
Now I have three different cars, that since about April, all start like a '64 Chrysler without a choke. One just will not start on the first turn of the key when cold, and it has 2000 miles on it.
No, I don't need plugs, an airfilter, injectors, Techron or anything else. Just too much of a coincidence that all three cars started to behave this way all at the same time.
In my experience, it seems that 93 octane is worse than 87 for the starting issues. Also, the higher the compression ratio of the engine, the harder it is to start.
So here's my theory; the bastards are using ethanol as an octane improver (ethanol's octane rating is 110), the higher the octane, the more % ethanol you get, and the harder you start cold, since ethanol does not vaporize well when cool.
There may be nothing wrong with your car except the gas, which you can't do anything about.
Just my experience and rant, YMMV.
Regards
BD
For me, everything was fine until they started to change over to 10% ethanol in the spring. No CEL's, no other drivability problems, and all my cars receive maximum maintenance.
Now I have three different cars, that since about April, all start like a '64 Chrysler without a choke. One just will not start on the first turn of the key when cold, and it has 2000 miles on it.
No, I don't need plugs, an airfilter, injectors, Techron or anything else. Just too much of a coincidence that all three cars started to behave this way all at the same time.
In my experience, it seems that 93 octane is worse than 87 for the starting issues. Also, the higher the compression ratio of the engine, the harder it is to start.
So here's my theory; the bastards are using ethanol as an octane improver (ethanol's octane rating is 110), the higher the octane, the more % ethanol you get, and the harder you start cold, since ethanol does not vaporize well when cool.
There may be nothing wrong with your car except the gas, which you can't do anything about.
Just my experience and rant, YMMV.
Regards
BD
05-18-2006 | 06:16 AM
#6
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From: Milwaukee Area
Ethanol is being used as a scapegoat. We have had ethanol in wisconsin for years. And when i went to other states and filled up many tanks of MTBE and then came back to wisconsin for our ethanol gas, I have NEVER had a single problem. NEITHER S2k I've owned ever gave me so much as a CEL, or rough start, or idle problem, or anything. But magically it affects your car? No.
Ethanol is not your problem. So quit blaming it.
coincidence or not, it's not the ethanol. 
Ethanol is not your problem. So quit blaming it.
Just too much of a coincidence that all three cars started to behave this way all at the same time.
05-18-2006 | 06:29 AM
#7
Joined: Mar 2001
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Originally Posted by Boston Duce,May 18 2006, 06:14 AM
(ethanol's octane rating is 110)
I truly doubt it's the ethanol. Putting in 10% of something that is in itself quite combustible into 90% of something that is very combustible, won't contribute that much to the engine combustion process. You are looking at an effect on octane of 2% or less. You'd have to have 10% horse piss before you'd notice anything odd. Something else is going on here.
Trending Topics
05-18-2006 | 06:36 AM
#8
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 37,305
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The OP doesn't have a location indicated in his profile. I'm just wondering what the climate has been doing lately? --- Changes in ambient temp, barometric pressure, humidity?
The other thread on the same topic:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...0&#entry7685929
The other thread on the same topic:
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showt...0&#entry7685929
05-18-2006 | 09:10 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by Boston Duce,May 18 2006, 05:14 AM
Could be that your car does not like the new fuel formulation that substitutes ethanol for MBTE.
For me, everything was fine until they started to change over to 10% ethanol in the spring. No CEL's, no other drivability problems, and all my cars receive maximum maintenance.
Now I have three different cars, that since about April, all start like a '64 Chrysler without a choke. One just will not start on the first turn of the key when cold, and it has 2000 miles on it.
No, I don't need plugs, an airfilter, injectors, Techron or anything else. Just too much of a coincidence that all three cars started to behave this way all at the same time.
In my experience, it seems that 93 octane is worse than 87 for the starting issues. Also, the higher the compression ratio of the engine, the harder it is to start.
So here's my theory; the bastards are using ethanol as an octane improver (ethanol's octane rating is 110), the higher the octane, the more % ethanol you get, and the harder you start cold, since ethanol does not vaporize well when cool.
There may be nothing wrong with your car except the gas, which you can't do anything about.
Just my experience and rant, YMMV.
Regards
BD
For me, everything was fine until they started to change over to 10% ethanol in the spring. No CEL's, no other drivability problems, and all my cars receive maximum maintenance.
Now I have three different cars, that since about April, all start like a '64 Chrysler without a choke. One just will not start on the first turn of the key when cold, and it has 2000 miles on it.
No, I don't need plugs, an airfilter, injectors, Techron or anything else. Just too much of a coincidence that all three cars started to behave this way all at the same time.
In my experience, it seems that 93 octane is worse than 87 for the starting issues. Also, the higher the compression ratio of the engine, the harder it is to start.
So here's my theory; the bastards are using ethanol as an octane improver (ethanol's octane rating is 110), the higher the octane, the more % ethanol you get, and the harder you start cold, since ethanol does not vaporize well when cool.
There may be nothing wrong with your car except the gas, which you can't do anything about.
Just my experience and rant, YMMV.
Regards
BD
I think it is far more probable that what ever gas station you go to has a problem, probably cutting cost by not checking the water level in their tanks ro something like that. I'm not saying it's not the gas, I just don't think it's the ethanol considering I have and all of Ohio have been running ethanol gas for years. Half the GM cars on the road can run with 85% ethanol in the same engine that burns gas.
05-18-2006 | 09:12 AM
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Oh yeah, keep in mind that ethanol is not cheap for the gas companies, it would be much cheaper for them just to make a higher octane (since it's only a couple of % higher with ethanol than without) than put ethanol in. Qute a few refineries are haveing to ship it in buy truck or train, and that is expense for them.