Clutch Sound
07-30-2020, 11:56 PM
#51
Valve seats is a likely cause but with a leak down you can check that without pulling the head, now if it indeed is the seats that is the cause then yes head needs to come off to fix it.
If you get someone else to do the leak down, you would want numbers on each cylinder and if one is higher than the others you want them to check where the leak is coming from, intake/exhaust valves or bottom end.
If you get someone else to do the leak down, you would want numbers on each cylinder and if one is higher than the others you want them to check where the leak is coming from, intake/exhaust valves or bottom end.
07-31-2020, 02:44 AM
#52
I do not think we should take the reports from OP as 100% accurate reports of what he is being told. I think there might be a lot lost in the translation. OP seems well meaning, but there isn't a great deal of understanding exhibited in the posts. It may be that OP is not fully understanding what the mechanic is trying to explain. I am not going to critique a mechanic unless I am sure that the information I have is accurate. The information being passed along to us here doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
07-31-2020, 05:00 AM
#53
Bad valve guides doesn't make compression go down, that makes no sense.
And no, it is not a lot of work doing leak down test. I'm sure there are hundreds of youtube videos on it that you can check.
Yes ABS light will turn on if you drive it with wheels in the air, it doesn't really matter though and it will go off once you drive it a short distance on the ground again.
I wouldn't trust this shop at all, they probably know how to wrench on this car but unless you pay them to do one specific job you could probably loose a lot of unnecessary cash.
And no, it is not a lot of work doing leak down test. I'm sure there are hundreds of youtube videos on it that you can check.
Yes ABS light will turn on if you drive it with wheels in the air, it doesn't really matter though and it will go off once you drive it a short distance on the ground again.
I wouldn't trust this shop at all, they probably know how to wrench on this car but unless you pay them to do one specific job you could probably loose a lot of unnecessary cash.
Valve guide wear is caused by tight valves that don't fully close, because they have to deal with all the heat of the valve, instead of sharing that responsibility with the valve seat.
07-31-2020, 05:35 AM
#54
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Also, REALLY trying to pay attention to the noise and pretty much everything with this car. I am suer in tune with it.
It defiantly will do it the most when releasing the clutch reversing. Couldn't I just do that on the lift while Tony looks at it? He claimed that the ABS will come on and you cannot really drive it like that on a lift. I mean, all I have to do is just release the clutch a tad.
Also, in general, nothing to do with the noise I have noticed quite a bit of vibration on the decel from 2.5k-4. in the clutch pedal. Not sure if that is normal in these cars or that has to do with anything we are talking about.
At this point, that noise is either the mounts or the clutch, although the clutch operates normally (to me) and does not slip one bit.
It defiantly will do it the most when releasing the clutch reversing. Couldn't I just do that on the lift while Tony looks at it? He claimed that the ABS will come on and you cannot really drive it like that on a lift. I mean, all I have to do is just release the clutch a tad.
Also, in general, nothing to do with the noise I have noticed quite a bit of vibration on the decel from 2.5k-4. in the clutch pedal. Not sure if that is normal in these cars or that has to do with anything we are talking about.
At this point, that noise is either the mounts or the clutch, although the clutch operates normally (to me) and does not slip one bit.
You can drive the car in the air and have him watch, yes. I think any shop would want to try that to make the source of the noise more visible.
The ABS light shouldn't turn on just by driving in the air. But even if it does...it'll turn back off. This an AP1...so VSA isnt a factor. It doesn't turn on when you're doing a burnout. Right? The car is gonna just think you're doing a really long burnout. The "right on, man" light might turn on tho. But...it'll turn off too.
The rattle on decel is normal on AP1's. Honda later updated the clutch disk so that the springs don't loosen and rattle in their cages.
This whole noise COULD be related to the clutch.
Thanks for the info!
This guy really might be blowing smoke. It's just crazy he is literally the "most talked about" S2K guy out here, and on these forums.
Please help me better understand/educate me if you will--
1. What are some reasons/what is broken to have a cylinder slightly low compression?
2. What does the leak down test show me? What should the shop that I go to next tell me regarding the leak down? Is there something particular?
3. What would be the reason he is suggesting to pull the head? There has to be something gained from pulling the head? He just seems so confident that pulling the head is what needs to happen. He claims that is what needs to be done as the next step to see the exact issue.
This guy really might be blowing smoke. It's just crazy he is literally the "most talked about" S2K guy out here, and on these forums.
Please help me better understand/educate me if you will--
1. What are some reasons/what is broken to have a cylinder slightly low compression?
2. What does the leak down test show me? What should the shop that I go to next tell me regarding the leak down? Is there something particular?
3. What would be the reason he is suggesting to pull the head? There has to be something gained from pulling the head? He just seems so confident that pulling the head is what needs to happen. He claims that is what needs to be done as the next step to see the exact issue.
1. Compression can leak through the rings or thru the valves. The reasons are numerous. The most likely cause for compression loss past pistons is worn rings. Thrust bearings or knock or piston slap can sometimes cause it - this happens when someone runs the car low on oil, typically. Valves can leak if someone over revved it mechanically (3rd to 2nd gear "upshift" at redline). Or from an adjustment thats too tight. Tons of reasons for what actually caused the issue to start.
2. leakdown shows you WHERE its leaking. Air coming thru the intake or exhaust manifold means leaky valves. Air rushing thru the PCV means leaking past the pistons.
3. he's betting on valves being the cause of your low compression
Last edited by B serious; 07-31-2020 at 06:06 AM.
07-31-2020, 06:04 AM
#55
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He's right that *most of the time the valves are what's leaking compression.
Did he check the valve lash?
If the lash isn't too tight, the most common reason for valve seat problems is a mechanical over rev.
Someone is in 3rd at redline. Goes to put it in 4th....but unknowingly finds 2nd. Lets the clutch out while flooring it for the next gear and :ZING:...11K RPM.
The bottom end is sometimes fine, but the valves float and hit a piston or slam the seat so hard that it deforms it. Or some other form of valve shittery occurs.
Usually, AP1 retainers also crack during this.
So its definitely dangerous to keep driving after THIS has occurred. If a retainer is cracked, it could let go of the valve and destroy the engine.
THIS whole incident can also cause clutch and engine bottom end issues, depending on severity. Any chance this happened to the car?
Did your mechanic put a mirror under the retainers?
Did he check the valve lash?
If the lash isn't too tight, the most common reason for valve seat problems is a mechanical over rev.
Someone is in 3rd at redline. Goes to put it in 4th....but unknowingly finds 2nd. Lets the clutch out while flooring it for the next gear and :ZING:...11K RPM.
The bottom end is sometimes fine, but the valves float and hit a piston or slam the seat so hard that it deforms it. Or some other form of valve shittery occurs.
Usually, AP1 retainers also crack during this.
So its definitely dangerous to keep driving after THIS has occurred. If a retainer is cracked, it could let go of the valve and destroy the engine.
THIS whole incident can also cause clutch and engine bottom end issues, depending on severity. Any chance this happened to the car?
Did your mechanic put a mirror under the retainers?
Last edited by B serious; 07-31-2020 at 06:07 AM.
07-31-2020, 09:25 AM
#56
Thanks guys. Going to go get a leak down test now at another shop. There is nothing being lost in translation here. The shop assumes it need a valve job and is willing to take the risk that that is the issue.
I called around and 1800 seems about right for a valve job if that is the cause.
Will report soon after leak down.
I called around and 1800 seems about right for a valve job if that is the cause.
Will report soon after leak down.
07-31-2020, 01:55 PM
#58
I just got back from the shop, and OMG, WTF!
I am about to leave the worse review I have even written. Stop me if I am off here.
I walked in after arguing on the phone with them and asked to see the print out of the leak down across all cylinders and it tells me I didn't ask for a leak down and that everything is fine at 180 compression. I told him the gauge should read what the leak percentage is and he tried telling me that is not how it works and puts uses oi in the cylinder etc.
He got really nasty with me and I recorded the whole thing.
Please listen. What are your thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F4B...ature=youtu.be
I then dropped the car off at another shop (now for a 3rd opinion) and asked to see the leak down the gauge to make sure I was not just getting a compression check. I Will report this evening. Hopefully they even do it right.
I watched this video too, and it seems important to find the top dead center to perform a proper leak down so air does not leak out.
I swear some of these mechanics think they just can get away with anything. What's worse is his attitude and lack of customer servcie. I wished I recorded the phone conversation.
I am about to leave the worse review I have even written. Stop me if I am off here.
I walked in after arguing on the phone with them and asked to see the print out of the leak down across all cylinders and it tells me I didn't ask for a leak down and that everything is fine at 180 compression. I told him the gauge should read what the leak percentage is and he tried telling me that is not how it works and puts uses oi in the cylinder etc.
He got really nasty with me and I recorded the whole thing.
Please listen. What are your thoughts?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2F4B...ature=youtu.be
I then dropped the car off at another shop (now for a 3rd opinion) and asked to see the leak down the gauge to make sure I was not just getting a compression check. I Will report this evening. Hopefully they even do it right.
I watched this video too, and it seems important to find the top dead center to perform a proper leak down so air does not leak out.
I swear some of these mechanics think they just can get away with anything. What's worse is his attitude and lack of customer servcie. I wished I recorded the phone conversation.
07-31-2020, 01:58 PM
#59
this is the video I watched on how to perform the leak down--
BTW, I also called 4 other shops and they don't do leak downs, just compression. Why is this so hard to find a shop to do. One of them did do it, but said that it's not going to tell me much but was like "if you want to pay me to do it, I will."
His point was if it was the bottom end (related to piston rings, etc), it would probably be smoking or even a check engine light. I assume he is full of bs too?
BTW, I also called 4 other shops and they don't do leak downs, just compression. Why is this so hard to find a shop to do. One of them did do it, but said that it's not going to tell me much but was like "if you want to pay me to do it, I will."
His point was if it was the bottom end (related to piston rings, etc), it would probably be smoking or even a check engine light. I assume he is full of bs too?
07-31-2020, 02:11 PM
#60
looks like the youtube link of my recorded video didn't work, so here is the correct link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfS3...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfS3...ature=youtu.be