CAR #7 ONE broken exhaust retainer
05-10-2007, 06:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SC_Highlander,May 10 2007, 07:47 PM
Just remember that the peak RPM memory is not always accurate. I've had mine playback 11,000 rpm, 102,000 rpm and everything in between. Bob was actually considering removal of that feature due to the random wierdness.
05-10-2007, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Krenath,May 10 2007, 04:01 PM
...And on the flip side, what's the average cost of letting it go until the retainers break?
New retainers, new keepers, possible new camshaft(s). At the extreme end, a dropped valve resulting in the need for new valves, pistons, and maybe even the cylinder head itself depending on what hit what how hard.
Preventative maintenance is always cheaper.
New retainers, new keepers, possible new camshaft(s). At the extreme end, a dropped valve resulting in the need for new valves, pistons, and maybe even the cylinder head itself depending on what hit what how hard.
Preventative maintenance is always cheaper.
Also, thicker retainers won't prevent a money shift, they will only insure that the exhaust valves hit the pistons before the retainers stretch, thereby eleminating the need to inspect the retainers after an over rev. The AP1 retaineers seem to be fine to well beyond the rev limiter, and when they fail it is not catastrophic (as long as the retainers are inspected afterward). Basically, by changing them before they fail, you are buying insurance against damage from something that you should never do under any circumstances, and the policy is limited, because you can still make the money shift and trash the engine.
Bill does not recommend replacing the retainers as preventative maintainence at this time, and given what we know at this point that is the best advice. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Honestly guys, you will know when it is time to upgrade the retainers as a preventative measure, becasue Bill and I will be doing it and discussing it. Until then nobody can be absolutely sure that your car won't be the first one proven to eat a valve without a money shift, but since it hasn't happened yet (as far as we know) it's unlikely that you'll be the first. Keep in mind that Modifry beat his car hard for 180,000 miles and that and Billman is heading in that direction, and neither of them have had any retainer issues. There are several of us watching this issue closely, and at this point the master says we're OK ... that's good enough for me.
Currently the proper preventative measure is to inspect the retainers after a suspected money shift, not to replace them in anticipation of a money shift.
05-11-2007, 01:49 AM
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There is no real copyright on posted stuff and I think xviper would be the last to claim it so I would like to post this (his 
) line of thought:
xviper posted on another forum
some time ago:
It makes perfect sense to me.
Maybe this rapid change in rpm confuses add-on electronics like a Modify Shifter Beeper as well and it starts giving weird readings.
) line of thought:xviper posted on another forum
some time ago:
I've often made the assertion that you can do valvetrain damage even if you don't over-rev. If you select a lower gear that will take the revs to redline, but do it in a sloppy fashion like dropping the clutch rapidly without doing some sort of rev-match, the engine accelerates extremely fast. I've been of the contention that you can rev the engine much faster, mechanically (via the drive wheels), than the engine can rev itself by simply giving it gas. The rapid accelerative forces applied in this manner (ie, CHANGE in rpm) can be damaging as well. Most people don't consider this to be an over-rev or anything to take note of.
Maybe this rapid change in rpm confuses add-on electronics like a Modify Shifter Beeper as well and it starts giving weird readings.
05-11-2007, 03:02 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by jyeung528,May 10 2007, 06:57 PM
can you even use a torque wrench when you use the Honda VA tool?
Anyone that does a VA should use a torque wrench.
20 N-m. I do them by hand, but only after I click them of with a 3/8 drive torque wrench.
You CANNOT use a 1/2 drive, no matter what it starts at. It is not accurae at all in this range.
05-11-2007, 06:52 AM
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damn......
Billman you sure your not taking these for a "test drive" before you inspect them" lol...
Can i visually inspect my retainers if i took my valve cover off?? Or is there more to it??
Jakub
Billman you sure your not taking these for a "test drive" before you inspect them" lol...
Can i visually inspect my retainers if i took my valve cover off?? Or is there more to it??
Jakub
05-11-2007, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Billman250,May 10 2007, 03:07 PM
There is no need to run out and get AP2 retainers.
Do not fix what is not broken. Study the pics, and do your own retainer inspection.
Do not fix what is not broken. Study the pics, and do your own retainer inspection.
Thanks to both Billman and REDMX5 for taking the time to reply
05-11-2007, 08:59 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by Billman250,May 11 2007, 03:02 AM
No idea, I don't use the Honda VA tool.
Anyone that does a VA should use a torque wrench.
20 N-m. I do them by hand, but only after I click them of with a 3/8 drive torque wrench.
You CANNOT use a 1/2 drive, no matter what it starts at. It is not accurae at all in this range.
Anyone that does a VA should use a torque wrench.
20 N-m. I do them by hand, but only after I click them of with a 3/8 drive torque wrench.
You CANNOT use a 1/2 drive, no matter what it starts at. It is not accurae at all in this range.
i don't understand what you are saying...after you use the torque wrench to tighten the bolt...what would you need to do by hand?
also, without using the VA tool, do you find that the adjusting screw will move when you tighten the bolt?
Thanks,
05-11-2007, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jyeung528,May 11 2007, 08:59 AM
pardon my lack of comprehension...
i don't understand what you are saying...after you use the torque wrench to tighten the bolt...what would you need to do by hand?
also, without using the VA tool, do you find that the adjusting screw will move when you tighten the bolt?
Thanks,
i don't understand what you are saying...after you use the torque wrench to tighten the bolt...what would you need to do by hand?
also, without using the VA tool, do you find that the adjusting screw will move when you tighten the bolt?
Thanks,
05-11-2007, 10:02 AM
#70
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^ Yeah, I was confused, too. I usually adjust the set-screw and snug the nut down using the coveted Marcucci valve adjustment tool, then I check torque using a torque wrench. If the nut moves when torquing, I re-check the clearance (and re-adjust if necessary).