crisskro

FPD, PCV, MAP - changed, same thing. Injectors are next.

BlackFox - any updates on yours?

S2Kennyy

checked the little holes in the throttle body?



and gasket looking like this?

BlackFox

Yes, and no...

The engine now has one of those Hondata plastic intake gaskets to reduce intake temperature and kangerooing in traffic. The original intake gasket was slightly damaged, so hopes were high.
Sadly, no change.
We came to no other conclusion that mechanically, the engine seems to have no issues.

It's the electronics that are messing up or reacting too slow with the air/fuel mixture.

So I took it to an electronic diagnostic expert. He discovered the 2nd lambda sensor was constantly switching voltage, meaning the ECU was constantly adjusting the mixture. There was also a certain exhaust gas value (I believe it was carbon)which was too high.

He then adjusted the valves (yet again) and discovered the exhaust valves were too tight. He also re adjusted the idle screw on the throttle body.

The engine definitely runs better, but still not as smooth as it should.
He said it was due to the flowed intake and exhaustports, the stock ECU probably can't handle the increased airflow. Not sure if I can trust this theory...

Anyway, the car is a bit more driveable. But it still shakes a little at idle, it still sounds a little lumpy at idle and gives pops when the engine is cold and the airpump is engaged.
But the most annoying thing for me is the driveability at +-2500rpm. It still slightly hesitates, most people don't notice, but I do.
Especially when I floor at low rpm and then release the throttle, it will give a shudder through the drivetrain.
For example, when I'm cruising at 50km/h in 4th gear and I push the throttle a little deeper (rpm's will be around 2500) and then release it again, I get a nasty shake through the drivetrain. Almost like it misfires or something.

I'm almost giving up hope to ever have a decent running engine again...

crisskro

S2Kennyy - thanks, I'll take it apart and check when the snow starts coming and I won't drive it anyways.

Blackfox: someone who knew the car before it was in my possession said I may have a ported intake, I haven't checked yet if it's normal or ported, I'll see when I replace the injectors.
But. I also starting to think the electronics are to blame, I'll take down all the wiring harnesses to have them checked - but this will take a while. I'll post when I get any update...

s2000Junky

Bingo!


Swap out the damper with one of your local members and report back.


Your static fuel pressure is being effected and at idle to partial throttle (say up to 35%) is closed loop ECU operation, where it is electronically trying to compensate the fuel trims for the erratic fuel pressure created by the f@#ked up damper, so in this state of running your car is misbehaving, but above 35% throttle where the ECU goes into open loop, it will run more consistently. If you had a wideband hooked up to your car id bet you would see the afr sweeping rich to lean as the idle moves up and down. The stock ecu can deal with a range of fuel pressures if they are stable, giving the fuel trims a chance to set in, but if the pressure is constantly fluctuating the computer cant keep up.

Billman250

If the damper does not fix it, get someone with a high speed scanner that knows how to use it. Have him sit in the passenger side, and watch the PIDs. It shouldn't be hard to find the problem by following the proper diagnostic path.

crisskro

Thanks guys, but I changed the FPD (fuel pulsation damper) along with the PCV and MAP from another car and it's the same
So, damper did not fix it.
Our honda dealership was sold to mercedes and they are CLUELESS. What are these "PIDs"? So I can explain/translate it to someone who might know how to do it. Thanks again!
Edit: hopefully I'll meet a friend tonight that does ECU re-flashes, maybe we can diagnose via OBD2. But he has a universal scanner, not honda.

PS: my primary O2 sensor is still not completing, after testing it seems I have to "repair open in wire". But it does the same thing when the engine is cold, so I'm guessing it's not the O2 sensor.

Billman250

Anyone who works on car and does not know what a PID is should close their doors. It means they have no clue about the workings on a system that has been installed on ALL cars since 1996.

PIDs, or P-IDs are Parameter IDentifications. Every system in the car is abbreviated, like IAT or MAP. Each one of these systems runs in certain parameters.

If you know what the abbreviations mean, and know how to spot an out-of-parameter PID, then you will be able to fix anything, and fast.

Sad to say I could fix your car in under one hour.

If you explain the problem to anyone competent in the automotive field, and they have a vested interest in FIXING your car instead of lining their pockets, their FIRST approach should be "well lets take it down the road and run the data." In short, monitor the PIDs.

These techs are not easy to find. Almost all shops will say "you likely have a bad XXXX" They will replace it, charge you, and then say well that part was bad but it needs other parts.

I think people like this should go to jail, because it is dishonest. But in reality it's stupidity. There is no license requirement to work on a car, and people qualify themselves to do so because they can change brake pads or an alternator.

Pick up the phone and have some fun. Have this post in front of you for reference, and call a few shops explaining your situation. Make them admit their stupidity

Tell them you've already been to a bunch of shops that changed a bunch of parts, and you are looking for a shop that actually knows how to fix a car instead of changing part after part on your dollar.

crisskro

I agree that most shops are like that.
However, my mechanic has not charged me anything so far, and we spent a lot of hours on this problem.
And the parts I replaced so far, the shop did not order them, I gave them the parts to replace.
He doesn't have a honda diagnostic tool, the shop is waiting on one tho.

The sad part is: so few people know to fix the S in Europe. If you ever decide to take a vacation to Europe, let me know

(i needed to know what the PIDs are in case I need to translate it to them, sometimes the terminology is different)

crisskro

Got a hold of a honda oem tester, we got a look at the PIDs.

Two are of importance:
Spark advance at idle should be 13° to 18°. Mine was at 5°, then down to 2°, then 9°, then 3°.. you get the idea. The values were changing at about 1-3 seconds.

When the Spark advance was at 4.2°, the Knock retard was at 5.4 (at idle it should have been 0).

Any thoughts Billman? Or anyone?
The mechanic said to change the ECM and try again.