Slowcrash_101

4 & 8? You mean 10 & 2? If you have the crank timing gear and cams lined up, piston 1 is at TDC and the cam shaft lobes are off the rocker arms. If it's all lined up and the cams are pointing down on the rockers, you done goofed.

With the mark as it is, your piston is out of phase with the cam, only bolt on the cam caps when you're sure that all the marks line up first.

Crank, timing gear and camshaft must all line up.

flanders

This is what I was talking about on the last page when my head was spinning in circles.
I will try to explain it again as good as I can.

This is before I touched anything and yes the car was running great, ~200whp on softdyno.
Everything lined up


Everything in same position just showing the cam lobes


Before pulling all the crap parts out, this is how the cams positioned.
No picture of cam gears but the marks were at 9 and 3 o'clock


And again with the new parts installed.
Everything is in the same position except the cam gears that switched places which obviously changed the timing mark positions to 3 and 9 instead.

windhund116

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...410_180929.jpg

From this photo, it kinda looks like the exhaust cam lobe maybe not quite where it should be. It might be just the angle of the photo. Compare above to Robinette's photo:

https://robrobinette.com/images/S200...djust/TDC1.jpg


Anyhow, it's a matter of ALL timing marks (cams and crank) lining up to TDC on Cylinder #1. You should be able to do it, since cam gears are on the proper cams, now.

If the marks are off... you need to remove the timing chain and slightly reposition the cam marks to align them with the crank, set to TDC. Once positioned correctly --- keep the cams from moving, while you re-attach the timing chain.

Good luck!

flanders

Crank is pretty much dead on the white mark and I don't think cam gears can get better aligned than this.


Just chain gear that is 180 degrees off, question is if it matters though.

Slowcrash_101

Not really, the only thing that matters is that piston 1 is at tdc when the cam marks line up. If your piston is at tdc and cams aligned you should be good to go.

Slowcrash_101

The marks are just to make tdc easier to spot. Whoever worked on that engine has worse dyslexia than I do. If you want to be sure put in a long stick down the cylinder and verify you're at tdc on the piston when the marks line up.

flanders

Thanks, yes I checked the piston height with a stick as well.
The only thing that is bugging me now is if there is some way to check the crank timing vs cam lobe timing.
But since my car did run with the timing set like it is now I guess it should be correct

Slowcrash_101

Yeah that sprocket can be off, the only thing that matters is that the piston is at TDC when the cams line up. When the lobes are at 10 and 2 with the piston at TDC that particular cylinder is at the peak of it's compression stroke, next would be exhaust stroke, so if the exhaust valves open you should be golden. Only way to check for sure is with a degree wheel and a couple dial indicators. Every engine is slightly different, it's why there's no official list on timing events.

This was the closest I could find

Use this information at your own risk. I found an old document that essentially has the cam card for the AP1 camshafts and some other manufacturers. I have not verified that this information is correct. Here it is:

AP1 Intake Camshaft, VTEC lobe
- max lift: 12.2 mm
- advertised duration: 295 degrees
- duration at 1 mm: 247 degrees
- centerline: 98 degrees ATDC
- valve open (advertised duration reference): 50 degrees BTDC
- valve closed (advertised duration reference): 65 degrees ABDC

AP1 Exhaust Camshaft, VTEC lobe
- max lift: 11.1 mm
- advertised duration: 309 degrees
- duration at 1 mm: 243 degrees
- centerline: 100 degrees BTDC
- valve open (advertised duration reference): 75 degrees BBDC
- valve closed (advertised duration reference): 54 degrees ATDC

Billman250

Nothing had to come apart (timing chain wise)

All you had to do was set the engine camwheel correct, then drop the cams in.

So you dropped the cams in with the engine not set correctly.

The question once again arises if you are half a tooth off due the the camwheel gear/camwheel sprocket correlation.

Lift out cams, turn engine 360 (camwheel moves 180) reinstall cams. You've come this far why not make it right? I could research the camwheel gear to camwheel sprocket positioning and check, but putting it together correctly would eliminate the need.

flanders

Yes of course I want to make it correct but if the chain sprocket has been moved before what is really correct?
Billman I did exactly like you proposed in the other thread because that made sense https://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/245...t__p__23928628

Now would the motor run correctly if crank is 360 degrees out?
And if so how can you tell if it is out without checking the chain sprocket.
Everything is installed and ready to start up now, not really keen on tearing it apart again but I will if needed.