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What pressures do you figure the water circuit runs at? Trying to envision the water cooler device. Would it look just like the aftercooler's twin brother (Siamese twins) but with the A/C juice in it's veins instead of the charge air?
Too bad we aren
Most street kits just use a small radiator like a oil cooler radiator to cool the water used in a aftercooler setup.. It works out a little better for street driving you wouldnt have to run the a/c all the time, for track driving most just use ice or a mixture of alcohol and dry ice in the system i believe....
There would be two diffeerent circuits... one circuit driven by the A/C comprossor which is used to cool water in the tank.
The second circuit would be the standard Air/Water aftercooled setup and would work with or without a working A/C circuit.
The only place the AC circuit would come into contact with the Air-Water system would be were the AC evap core is submerged in the aftercoolers water tank.
How long would dry ice with an alcohol/water mixture typical last in a track environment?
The solution you are looking for is not to submerge the ac evaporater in the fluid. I think it is to drive partial intake air through the evaporator. Of course, there is no reason why you couldn't directly plumb AC air to the intake air, is there? It just wouldn't be enough to fully serve the engine, I think.
One of the reasons i didnt suggest directly cooling the intake charge with the AC is because it requires the AC to operate when the engine is at high load. Something its designed not to do. I also have doubts that such a setup could actually cool the air suffeciently. The thermal mass in the water tank serves the very important purpose of storing the cold for a time when its needed in the future. Plus, it allows the compressor to work for five minutes to produce two minutes of cooling, or there abouts.
I've done a lot of thought on the subject, though I hadn't considered using the stock AC system. To get around the ice issue, you can do two things. One is to run antifreeze in your reservoir, which should increase the temperature transfer properties anyways, secondly, design and inline evaporator on the return line for the aftercooler. That way it's always got a flow of water going on it, which should make it more efficient as well. Dave, if you know someone comfortable enough with AC systems to do the tee line in the stock system, I've already got a design together for the water system and even a location for the reservoir.
I have heard of misting before as well... Not sure how that would be dealt with on a track...
A couple of downsides to it are the nescessity for a second water tank and the hassle of having to refill it every now and again.
The water tank would be at ambient pressure, i believe... I'm pretty sure its just a pool of water in a tank unpressurized.
However, If it is pressureized that would present a bit of a problem and might be a show stopper.
The circulating water would come in contact with only the outside surface of the new evaporator.
Here is a diagram of what i have in mind... Click on the pic to get a larger more readable version...
Don't know whether or not your idea will work, but here are a couple things to investigate:
1. What really happens at full throttle with the AC on? I've been privy to some tests on other Hondas that showed losses of 20 hp to the wheels on the dyno with the AC on. I htought it would have shut down, but I don't know if its a dyno issue, or what.
2. What is the temperature effect on the entire engine with AC on? As you know, the heat exchanger for the AC is in front of the radiator. How do coolant temps change when the AC is on? An OBDII scantool should be able to give you some idea in testing.
3. What is the thermal capacity of the AC system? If you look at the FSM, it should have some numbers about expected discharge temps, etc. You should be able to extrapolate some rough numbers on how much heat the system can eliminate over a given time period. This is a very critical number, as the heat you need to remove may far exceed the capacity of the A/C system, neting a very small benefit in racetrack conditions (although it still might be useful for cooling the system elsewhere if ice isn't handy).
02-14-2002, 09:10 PM
A/C cooled water for Air-Water Aftercooler... Doable??
