jl56tc

the thing is its about oil cleanliness it has nothing to do with kind... I work in oil and ill tell you they all are the same its the amount and types of additives placed in them to give them there viscosity .... anyway a little off topic there so sorry to the OP

Quinn

**Update**

Didn't get around to working on the car right away because I went in on a big garage with a friend so I can pull it apart there. I drove the car to the new location with no issues and not even a whole lot of smoke. I pulled the manifolds off. All the exhaust valves were dry. One of the intake valves for cylinder 3 (which were in the closed position) had a little oil pooled around the back side of the valve. One of the cylinder 4 intake valves had a tiny bit of oil as well. So I am assuming from here that it is either valve seals or valve guides. Which is more common for these cars to fail? I will be pulling the head next weekend. How can I diagnose and rule out one or the other?

Thanks in advance.

Car Analogy

Can't you replace valve seals without pulling head? I would try that first. Cheap, easy.

I just saw this post for the first time, and as I was reading I was thinking valve seals. I was thinking it was smoking so much from youd test at home because it was burning off all the oil that leaking past valve seals while it sat, and if only you ran it longer smoke would die down. Then that is what happened in your drive to new garage. Then further evidence when you saw pooled oil on back of valves.

Question is if its just seals or also guides. I would think as you're changing seals, with retainers off etc you could get some idea if guides totally hosed by feel. If they are loose enough to feel play.

So again, I would try seals with head on (spark plug hole air hose adapter to keep valves in place when retainers removed). Check for guide play as you go. No play found, button up and test. Still smokes or play found, well then pull head.

MM3Kwolik

While doing seals with the head on is not "easy" it is definitely doable with the right tools. Obviously the cams, rockers, and cam towers all have to come out. Then you've gotta pull all the retainers and springs (keep all these in order for each cylinder). I recommend getting a valve seal puller otherwise you will have a hell of a time getting them off. Be VERY careful to not scratch the valve stems or you're sure to have a leak if you didn't already. As Car Analogy said, you can then check valve free play by rocking the valve back and forth in the guide to see if the valve guides are shot. 124K miles isn't a ton, so I wouldn't suspect the guides to be bad. It is very possible though that the seals are worn. If you're seeing oil on TOP of the valves it's either getting there from the guides/seals or is being pulled in through your intake manifold from the breather pipe or the PCV valve. Did you notice any oil in the intake manifold as well? Do you still have the AP1 valve cover and associated PCV or have you done the 04-05 valve cover and PCV upgrade?

Quinn

There was a thin film of oil within the intake manifold which seemed to be from the normal PCV operation. I still have the AP1 cover. What is different or better about the AP2 cover? I would think since the valve seal sits on top of the guide, that at minimum the seals would have to be bad in order for oil to get onto the back of the valve stem. I'd rather just do the work with the head off as leaning over the fenders is a pain. Plus with the head off I will be able to replace the seals easier and have better visibility to see if there are any other issues. I have decided to retire this car as my daily so there is no time crunch anymore. While the head is off, I am going install a thinner HG, BC cams and valvetrain kit as well as a handful of other N/A mods I had always wanted to do.

4wheelsoffury

Let us know how it goes, i'm in the same boat right now but at this point i'm more inclined to think its my rings, i've already replaced retainers, valve guide seals and they changed nothing. I'm just too lazy to spend time after hours pulling the head off at this point.

davidc1

Off the subject a little, but any particular reason you are spending to much money on oil changes? Especially with adding a quart top off every oil change as well.

There is of course nothing wrong with changing it as often as you are, it's just a lot of money.

Your oil could last three times longer than you are giving it, especially since you top it off a lot.

MR.T

man, i really think you're jumping to conclusions. you did a comp test and got some really crazy numbers...even though they were crazy they were consistent, 285 and 300 is not a wide variant. you then added oil to the suspect cylinder, number 3 i think, and the comp went up...that tells you rings/cyl wall area, not valves. i'm not sure if you've told us that your retainers are ok yet either.

if i were you i'd go back with a different gauge and do a compression test. then if you find anything funny do a leak down test. you'll eliminate all of this guesswork, time and money you're about to spend. it could be sooo many things...ecm, lean condition/slight detonation, intermittent coilpack problem, map... the list goes on.

Quinn

What were your symptoms before changing the seals?


I change oil when it starts to get dark or every 4 months, whichever is first. Around 2200 miles is where my S2K's oil starts to become dark brown. I don't think there is anything wrong with RP oil either. I use it because I can buy it locally and I feel is better than Mobile 1 10w-30, which has gotten quite watery over the years. Valvetrain noise was noticeably reduced by switching from Mobile 1. I have been using RP in several of my performance cars for years now without issues.


I understand the numbers were too high, but the consistency I feel is more important. I never put oil in the cylinder to raise compression because I never had a low reading in any cylinder.


I am pulling the engine as we speak because no matter what I am cleaning everything up and addressing whatever areas need be while I have the car down. I haven't separated the head yet, so I am going to perform a leak down test this weekend before I do to see if it reveals anything further.

MR.T

Sorry, misread about adding oil.
Guess what I'm saying is your consistency was fine. Kinda sounds like you just want to get your hands dirty regardless.