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Originally Posted by negcamber,Aug 30 2008, 08:59 AM
Good luck with hitting 275whp and have reliable. You might send a PM to 4bang6. He's got a 2.7 InlinePro with 13:1 compression. He was able to get 260whp on pump gas. You might be able to get to 270whp on race gas and some timing. I think he's got 15-20k miles on the motor. And in that time he's been through 5-6 starters and a few timing chain tensioners due to the high compression and higher oil pressure.
FFSkip has/had a 2.5 InlinePro on a track car...it's been pretty reliable but it was only putting down 240whp.
ITBs haven't been shown to raise the max hp by that much. They do give a meatier mid-range though.
AEM EMS is probably the most popular. There are better options, but they are all more expensive in the end with not much improvement on the AEM EMS.
We already have a Torsen LSD, but you might want to look at a PuddyMod reinforced diff since the oem carrier end-caps are known for breaking.
The head already flows better than any other from Honda and appears to use swirl quite a bit. Your average port & polish will destroy the swirl...many who have done an average port & polish have found they either don't make hp or actually lose some. I only know of 2 shops who can do work on the s2k head and actually have it make more power...usual wait time to get a head done by either shop is 6-12 months.
Honestly though...you will spend a lot of money to build up to 275whp and for the same money you could have 600+whp turbo s2k. And for the money you would spend to get reliable 240whp, you could have reliable 300-350whp with SC or small turbo.
#1. nothing less reliable then a turbod honda ive owned 2 different ones and will never change my opinion on that.
#2. you have a lot of good points and you know much mroe about the f22 then i do at this time, but I have a tuner/builder I trust a lot who did my past turbo setups to help me out.
#3. the stress the turbo puts on that ting engine is fine for drag. but at a hot track racing all day long im not relying on a turbo thrusting 15psi of air or more through my car on every stright away and having to be careful accelerating out of corners because of tourque steer, and boost will just spin the car out.
my point of view. it wont change im doing all motor for sure but im willing to settle for less of a hp goal.
Originally Posted by 57udl3y,Aug 31 2008, 12:58 AM
negcamber which shops do you know of that actually know what they are doing with port and polish
Joe Alaniz and Hytech
Although I'll be interested to see how ENDYN does on Carrera's head. Carrera, I hope the changes they make help your motor...I'll admit that I'm skeptical that increasing flow by that much will make as large a difference as you're estimating, simply because I don't think there is that much usable volume left in the combustion chamber without increasing displacement. But I admit I haven't done the calculations to prove this to myself, so it's speculation on my part.
Revvhii...I am absolutely with you that NA is very satisfying and I still wrestle with either staying NA and stroking to get the eventual performance I want or going with a small turbo or Kraftwerks SC.
I understand that you have concerns from previous turbo Honda experience, but I can't say it enough times...the F20/22 is unlike any Honda motor out there, so you can't base it's performance under boost to any previous FI Honda experience. I have personally watched a tuner buddy of mine put over 500miles on a dyno tuning an F20 that was pushing no less than 400whp and peaked at 600+whp (probably 300 dyno miles between 500-600whp). 100% stock internals on the motor...the kicker...125k miles on the engine. Dyno miles are hard miles, I think you would agree.
Not sure if you knew, but the cyl walls are fiber reinforced and the rods are forged. It is an extremely stout motor that can reliably take low boost (7-10psi) to make 300-350whp.
Having been a racer and avid autoxer for 23yrs, I would never advise a big turbo s2k as a road course car for just the reason you mention...turbo spools waaay too late and too fast (btw...no torque steer with our RWD car...but there is power on oversteer). But I would have no problem running a T25 or T28 turboed s2k spooling at under 2500rpm (just normal launch for me is right at that rpm anyway with this car).
But, reducing your NA goal is wise. 260whp is much more attainable...reliability may still be an issue at the compression you'll need unless you don't mind replacing starters at about $180 a pop or doing enough R&D to find a starter that can hold up to the increased power needed to turn a high comp motor.
At 260whp you are right at the edge of needing a more robust clutch. Since you'll have the motor out doing the stroke or bore increase, it shouldn't be that big a deal to throw stout clutch on there.
The only other thing I would do is a PuddyMod reinforced diff.
thanks negcamber you havea lot of valid points. so a low boost s2000 would do fairly well on autox/timeattack? Ive just never owned an all motor car. LOL and its something ive always wanted to try. isnt there also final gears that can increase your acceleration a bit? I was hearing soemthing about the final drives from one of my friends with a s2k. But i think that might have been for the f20c. anyway I would be happy with like 250 to the wheels on a mustang with a really good mid - high powerband.
08-30-2008, 10:33 PM
