Dezoris

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Luder94
Dezoris,

Ausmith

Hey everyone,

Clayton here from King Motorsports.

I'm not sure how this thread got so sideways, but at any rate I'll be glad to respond to some of the information, and mis-information.

First, on topic, we've had very few failures with the Mugen header on the AP1 chassis. I'm very interested to get this one back to check it out. Any time you use thin-walled tubing in an application like this, the number of cycles before failure is less than that of a cast piece or of a piece made from thicker-walled tubing. At any rate we do everything we can to help folks out when these things happen even after the warranty expires.

As for the banter about performance.

1) "The stock engine management is not smart enough to accommodate for the changes in air flow." Actually that is not true at all. Honda EMS does accommodate, via a correction factor, for differences in A/F ratio. You can pull these factors up with any OBDII diagnostic tool. The range of compensation is limited and varies by platform.

2) "My point was after all of this, these parts make power, but in most cases do not outperform a stock vehicle" . Dyno numbers are one thing, and I'll mention something on that subject in a second, but real-world "instrumented" tests are another. Despite showing little or no gains on the dyno, our cars that the magazines test always seem to perform much better than a stock vehicle in the various rigors they put them through. Check out the top speed numbers C&D reported.

3) The dyno. Every single time numbers are quoted from a dyno, it always seems to end up in some sort of bench racing battle. The truth is, there is very little validity in trying to compare dyno numbers. Unless you are working in an extremely controlled environment, like Mugen does with their engine dyno, the number of uncontrolled variables will always lead to a statistically significant margin of error. This is not to say that chassis dynos are useless, because in reality they are a very valuable tool. We've had the opportunity to work with Dynapack, Superflow, Dynojet, and our in shop Stuska engine dyno. They all have pros and cons, and the choice of dyno should be dictated by what exactly you are trying to accomplish.

Dezoris - I do take issue with some of your comments about our shop.

"My experience as with others has been that they don't haved the time to serve the public as an all purpose shop, I have been turned away for corner weighting and suspension setups multiple times where I was told it would take over a month to get me in."

I'm sorry you were not able to in for an appointment in a timeframe that was acceptable by your standards. There are certain times of the year when we get full and can no longer accept appointments. I would much rather be upfront with my customers rather than trying to rush through their project, and others, just to increase the shops capacity - nobody wins in that situation.

As for "serving the public as an all purpose shop", I think we exceed quite well in that area. We go out of our way to make ourselves accessible to the "general public". We offer dyno days in the Chicago area - not because it is convenient for us, because it is more convenient for the general public. We are very active in our local, and regional, motorsports community - we attend shows, meets, track days, races etc.... We also sponsor all sorts of events. We've been an active member in the SK2 community since the beginning. I can tell you that the majority of the customers projects we take are street cars - not race cars.

Derzoris - come on up for corner weight and alignment anytime. I'll do it free of charge and get you in anytime you want. You said, "much of that is opinion and experience does not add up to much", and I want to turn your opinion into an experience - I want you to see just how good King Motorsports is. Give me a call anytime to schedule it - 262-593-2800.

Thanks

Clayton

PMantis24

Dezoris

I will be the first to say I don't want to be the squeaky wheel getting the grease here. The fact that this was responded to by Ausmith is important.

I am willing to pay any price for tuning as long as it:

1.)Done with experience and good customer service.
2.)Done right, and not half-assed.
3.)Done in a reasonable amount of time, expectations are managed realistically.

I think most people feel the same way. The only suggestion I have for improvement in this area would be managing the customer expectations better. The people who want to come to your shop would probably browse your site to get the number. There should be something on there explaining that your shop is busy, that during the race season appointments are pushed out, and give alternatives.

I appreciate the offer for the corner weighing and alignment. I will call you for an alignment on my S2000, but I won't walk out of there without paying you guys your shop fees.

As I said before good business and work are worth something to me.

I don't want to beat a dead horse with the Mugen parts. I don't own any, don't plan to but if KMS has dyno numbers on an S2000 with the flow bolt ons w/ stock EMS vs. EMS Mugen or otherwise I think seeing these numbers would satisfy me.

I will agree to to disagree, it is well known how versitle the Honda EMS is on most of their models, it adjusts a great deal to compensate for many airflow mods. I just think that from the dynos I've seen the A/F curves are not a smooth as they should be, and there is too much fluctuation of power for my comfort. Does that make it bad, certainly not. I just think a car this if modded should be properly tuned on a software level, to balance things out. It certainly would make these expensive mods look better on paper, and on the butt dyno too. It seems I am the only proponent for EMS with bolt ons with this car. So I will drop it, but still want to see some results. Controlled results.

Ausmith you brought up a good point about dyno tuning, I seemed to have lost sight of this during my postings that, its really more of a guage to tune ones car. That comparing two dynos is not really fair because every car is different. With that said, I think when we have mass dynos in the same conditions on the same dyno we develop a baseline for averages. And that is where I started this debate. Why are stock cars making more power than modded vehicles? (in our batch of dynos) The only answer I got was that the modded cars needed to be tuned.

But Thank you for your info I will be calling soon to set up at least an alignment.

Mark
Dezoris

smccurry

King Motorsports =

Dezoris. Please go to KMS with an open mind. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical, but don't let it predetermine your opinion of the experience.

OMG, I sound like a victim of mind control!

Kaolinte

Thanks eveyone for your help. The situation has been resolved. Please help me close this thread before I am reminded again that I wasted my money on overpriced parts.

Jason

ImportSport

I see zero problem with waiting for professional, specialized service.

A shop can only manage to serve as many customers as it's staff and space allows for. If you want quality service then waiting for that service should not matter at all. Asking for immediate service from within a very specialized industury is a luxury that we as consumers should not demand, for the sake of compromising quality.

If you want fast service then visit your dealership. If you want specialized service then realize that the service you are paying for is worth waiting for.

Of course this only represents my personal opinion of how I approach street/race tuning in general.

Dezoris

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ImportSport