broken engine two days after ecu change
09-23-2006, 09:06 PM
#22
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I believe the MY02-03 ECU's run a little leaner than the MY00-01 ECU's, so that may have been a factor, but I think it's more likely to be the result of the oil you're using.
XViper, does the MY01 (as sold in Germany) have the upgraded banjo bolts? With x-60 oil it probably wouldn't matter, bit if he has the early banjo bolts combined with the thick oil, low gearing, and autobahn driving ... Number 4 is the most likely to overhead (first to go, so to speak), so I agree with you.
IMO the most likely cause is a lack of sufficient cooling.
XViper, does the MY01 (as sold in Germany) have the upgraded banjo bolts? With x-60 oil it probably wouldn't matter, bit if he has the early banjo bolts combined with the thick oil, low gearing, and autobahn driving ... Number 4 is the most likely to overhead (first to go, so to speak), so I agree with you.
IMO the most likely cause is a lack of sufficient cooling.
09-23-2006, 09:31 PM
#23
Originally Posted by RED MX5,Sep 23 2006, 11:06 PM
XViper, does the MY01 (as sold in Germany) have the upgraded banjo bolts? With x-60 oil it probably wouldn't matter, bit if he has the early banjo bolts combined with the thick oil, low gearing, and autobahn driving ... Number 4 is the most likely to overhead (first to go, so to speak), so I agree with you.
Not being an oil dynamics expert, I can only guess that with really thick oil, the performance of the sprayer with the new bolts could easily deteriorate to that of the old bolts. If old bolts were in place, the degradation may be even more severe.
09-24-2006, 01:12 AM
#24
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Oil jet problem probably would have failed differently. Why did you keep the stock retainers? Dr Cam said to keep them? Some AP1 owners are experiencing retainer failures on stock cars that ARE NOT OVERREV'd. I am one of them. Nine Grand introduces some crazy piston speeds and Honda's engineering department did not do a great job.
09-24-2006, 02:47 AM
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xviper Posted on Sep 24 2006, 07:31 AM
And it can be confirmed by your Honda dealer.
There is a database where they can see if the VIN/ID number of the car/engine in question had the work done.
All European cars with the old bolts were issued a recall to have the new bolts put in.
There is a database where they can see if the VIN/ID number of the car/engine in question had the work done.
09-24-2006, 04:02 AM
#26
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As i mentioned i'm the first owner, so all recalls have been correctly made including the oil bolts.
The oil..... Normaly you can give full load to an engine when the oil temperature rises above 80
The oil..... Normaly you can give full load to an engine when the oil temperature rises above 80
09-24-2006, 07:37 AM
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walter_s Posted on Sep 24 2006, 02:02 PM
The F20C engine was designed to use a xxW-30 oil.
Your (and mine) European manual states you may also use 5W-40 oil.
Those oils have a viscosity at 100C of +/- 10.5 cSt (xxW-30) and 15 cSt. (xxW-40)
The oil you used, the 10W-60 has a viscosity at 100C in between 21.9 and 26.1 cSt.
That is at least double the value of a xxW-30 oil at operating temp.
A xxW-30 oil will also have a viscosity of 25 cSt at one point, but then it will be colder, not at operating temp.
And you know it is not good to run an engine hard when cold.
(I know, there are also mechanical issues)
No.
That 5W-40 only says something about the viscosity range.
Nothing about quality.
Quality means that the oil can withstand high temps better and longer, doesn't get to thin when extremely hot (HTHS = High Temp High Shear), uses better additives to withstand oxidation for example and the list goes on and on.
An API rating, or ACEA, or VW norm say something about quality.
That Shell Racing 10W-60 is very good quality oil.
No doubt.
(it is a Dutch Quality Product
)
But it may be a little to thick, even at operating temp, for the F20C engine.
That said..
I do not know IF that made your engine go BOOM!
If a retainer fails due to stress (camshaft) no oil may pervent it.
That is what you posted in your first post:
At that temperature an 10W-60 oil special designed for high reves is in your opinion such an thick oil, that it can damage an S2000 engine ?
Your (and mine) European manual states you may also use 5W-40 oil.
Those oils have a viscosity at 100C of +/- 10.5 cSt (xxW-30) and 15 cSt. (xxW-40)
The oil you used, the 10W-60 has a viscosity at 100C in between 21.9 and 26.1 cSt.
That is at least double the value of a xxW-30 oil at operating temp.
A xxW-30 oil will also have a viscosity of 25 cSt at one point, but then it will be colder, not at operating temp.
And you know it is not good to run an engine hard when cold.
(I know, there are also mechanical issues)
This would mean the cheapest oil from the supermarket which has a 5W-40 label on it would outperform a racing synthetic 10W-60 from the highest quality you can get in the F20C engine.
That 5W-40 only says something about the viscosity range.
Nothing about quality.
Quality means that the oil can withstand high temps better and longer, doesn't get to thin when extremely hot (HTHS = High Temp High Shear), uses better additives to withstand oxidation for example and the list goes on and on.
An API rating, or ACEA, or VW norm say something about quality.
That Shell Racing 10W-60 is very good quality oil.
No doubt.
(it is a Dutch Quality Product
)But it may be a little to thick, even at operating temp, for the F20C engine.
That said..
I do not know IF that made your engine go BOOM!
If a retainer fails due to stress (camshaft) no oil may pervent it.
That is what you posted in your first post:
On a first view there were no exhaust valves visible in the head on the 4. zylinder.
09-24-2006, 09:01 AM
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Update:
I found a post on BITOG just now about 10W-60 oil.
Not S2000 related
A "Senoir Member" there, 427Z06 (the xviper of BITOG
) posted a link (that didn't work) to a UOA = Used Oil Analysis, of Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60.
That is what was used by the OP.
Full story here:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...ge=2#Post208816
I don't know in what sort of engine it was used.
Not so high quality as I thought.
But in the case of the OP it is kinda good news: the oil may have not been that thick at the time of the engine failure.
I found a post on BITOG just now about 10W-60 oil.
Not S2000 related
A "Senoir Member" there, 427Z06 (the xviper of BITOG
) posted a link (that didn't work) to a UOA = Used Oil Analysis, of Shell Helix Ultra Racing 10W-60.That is what was used by the OP.
Here's a UOA of a 10W-60, $60/qt Shell Helix Ultra Racing oil to be exact. Sheered down to a SAE 40 in 1400 miles of street driving. I willing to bet most of these supposed "ultra thick oils" are nothing of the sort. Their HTHS may not be proportionally higher (temporary sheer), and they sheer out to a Xw40 in short order (permanent sheer).
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/sho...ge=2#Post208816
I don't know in what sort of engine it was used.
Not so high quality as I thought.
But in the case of the OP it is kinda good news: the oil may have not been that thick at the time of the engine failure.
09-24-2006, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Eluded,Sep 24 2006, 04:12 AM
Some AP1 owners are experiencing retainer failures on stock cars that ARE NOT OVERREV'd.