Brands of oils
11-25-2015, 10:15 AM
#31
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Illnoise. WAY downtown, jerky.
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I actually have to agree with the fact the fact that people who post single points of data and label them as solid evidence that "you won't have an issue" is a major problem this country has as a whole. And I mean MAJOR problem. People find comfort when listening to people that "sound like they know what they're talking about" but the truth is... they don't. They have a single point of data.
Also, their analyses are often completely speculative. "Runs great" could mean "I have a burned valve but I wouldn't know because I don't even know what that is!" or you don't see the thread 5 days later "help I need a used long block for cheap, my motor took a dump!"
An excellent example that comes to mind is riceball's 2.4 stroker build. raving about how well it was done and "zero issues" "tracking all the time." He had several responses in peoples' inquiry threads about stroking F22/F20 and he would always chime in. Then his motor took a complete dump on him... All those threads still exist with his raving about his reliability.
I'm no saint either. I've done this several times, I'm sure. It's just something that hurts the community in my opinion.
Edit: also, my response above has nothing to do with oil, just in general. it's my belief that there's plenty of concrete evidence WITHOUT people's responses on how good their personal oil choice is where all oils almost all oils are completely fine.
Also, their analyses are often completely speculative. "Runs great" could mean "I have a burned valve but I wouldn't know because I don't even know what that is!" or you don't see the thread 5 days later "help I need a used long block for cheap, my motor took a dump!"
An excellent example that comes to mind is riceball's 2.4 stroker build. raving about how well it was done and "zero issues" "tracking all the time." He had several responses in peoples' inquiry threads about stroking F22/F20 and he would always chime in. Then his motor took a complete dump on him... All those threads still exist with his raving about his reliability.
I'm no saint either. I've done this several times, I'm sure. It's just something that hurts the community in my opinion.
Edit: also, my response above has nothing to do with oil, just in general. it's my belief that there's plenty of concrete evidence WITHOUT people's responses on how good their personal oil choice is where all oils almost all oils are completely fine.
I definitely agree that the "0 problems bro" responses/mentalities are an epidemic.
It either refers to a situation that means "I don't know enough about it to notice any issues, and I am too dense to believe anyone's rational argument as to why it will become a problem in the near future."
Or it describes a situation in which nobody would have any issues anyway because its not a deviation from what is correctly prescribed. "My car requires 10W30. That's what I use. I have had 0 problems".
11-25-2015, 02:03 PM
#32
I drive with the flat tappet, push rod engine crowd who like to discuss ZDDP - or the lack of it in modern oils. So the question is whether or not it should be added to modern oil formulations to save our flat tappet engines from themselves.
A Corvette guy, the 540Rat, has studied the situation. He tells me to forget the ZDDP additive.
Although you have to scroll through 60 screens of his rationale and methodology, you eventually come to his "Wear Protection Ranking List". https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
My friend Bob K. made a little cheat sheet which I copy here. I'm running #17 in the flat tappet, push rid engine and I think I may be running #44 in the S2000. I did use the Oil Extreme Concentrate for one oil change last year and it was really, really slippery stuff.
The Wear Protection reference categories are:
.
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection
.
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection
.
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
.
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection
.
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection
The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection.
With aftermarket additive package added to base oil
1. Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN synthetic = 136,658 psi
2. Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 130,366 psi
3. Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 117,028 psi
4. 5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 112,464 psi
This Motorcycle Road Racing oil is from France and comes in liter bottles (slightly more than a quart)
.
5. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 111,570 psi
6. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 111,061psi
7. 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM synthetic (per the Oil Company, even though synthetic wording is not shown on the label) = 110,286 psi
8. 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend (red bottle) = 108,045 psi
9. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
10. CFS 0W30 NT Millers Nanodrive Racing Oil, API SM synthetic = 105,907 psi
11. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 105,875 psi
12. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-
13. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN synthetic = 105,008 psi
14. 5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic = 104,487 psi
The bottle says it is formulated specifically for high output GM LS engines, and that no ZDDP or additives required. This is by far, the best performing Joe Gibbs oil I’ve ever tested. It is at the very top of the OUTSTANDING wear protection category, and fell just short of the INCREDIBLE wear protection category..
15. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi.
16. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 103,517 psi
17. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
18. 5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic, API CI-4 PLUS, CF, SL, ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7 = 102,642 psi
This is BY FAR, the highest ranked Diesel oil I have ever testedmoly = TBD
19. 5W30 Pennzoil High Mileage Vehicle, API SN, conventional = 102,402 psi
High Mileage oils are formulated for older engines with over 75,000 miles on them. And High Mileage oils include “Seal Swell” chemicals to help reduce oil leakage in those older engines.
20. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 102,059 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 105,875 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 3.6%”.
21. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
22. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 100,252 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi. But, with 1.5 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the bottle’s instruction for street driven vehicles, its wear protection capability “WENT UP A WHOPPING 30%”.
23. 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional (blue bottle) = 100,011 psi
24. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic (gold bottle) = 99,983 psi
25. 5W30 Pennzoil Platinum, API SN synthetic = 99,949 psi
26. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 99,529 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi.
27. 5W30 Pennzoil “Ultra” Platinum, Pure Plus Technology, made from pure natural gas, API SN = 99,039 psi
28. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM synthetic = 98,396 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 110,286 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 11%”.
29. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 97,651 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi. But, with 3.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, its wear protection capability “WENT UP 27%”.
30. 10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil synthetic = 97,118 psi
31. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 96,739 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi. But, with 4.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, its wear protection capability “WENT UP 26%”.
32. 20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 96,514 psi
33. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi
34. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic = 96,364 psi
35. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN synthetic = 95,920 psi
36. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic (gold bottle) = 95,717 psi
37. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil synthetic = 95,543 psi
38. 5W20 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,543 psi
39. 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,392 psi
40. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil synthetic = 95,360 psi
41. 5W30 Havoline, API SN conventional = 95,098 psi
42. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,942 psi
43. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional (blue bottle) = 94,864 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 100,011 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 5.1%”.
44. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
45. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 94,663 psi
46. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,460 psi
47. 10W40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T, four stroke Motorcycle oil, synthetic = 93,661 psi
48. 5W30 Eneos, API SN, synthetic = 93,135 psi
49. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN synthetic = 92,569 psi
50. 5W30 Lucas, API SN conventional = 92,073 psi
51. 5W30 O’Reilly (house brand), API SN conventional = 91,433 psi
52. 5W30 Castrol GTX High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 91,404 psi
53. 5W30 Maxima RS530 Synthetic Racing Oil = 91,162 psi
54. 5W30 Red Line, API SN synthetic = 91,028 psi
55. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 90,434 psi
56. 10W30 Quaker State Defy High Mileage, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi
57. 10W60 Castrol TWS Motorsport, API SJ conventional = 90,163 psi
58. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi
Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to you all!
,
A Corvette guy, the 540Rat, has studied the situation. He tells me to forget the ZDDP additive.
Although you have to scroll through 60 screens of his rationale and methodology, you eventually come to his "Wear Protection Ranking List". https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/
My friend Bob K. made a little cheat sheet which I copy here. I'm running #17 in the flat tappet, push rid engine and I think I may be running #44 in the S2000. I did use the Oil Extreme Concentrate for one oil change last year and it was really, really slippery stuff.
The Wear Protection reference categories are:
.
• Over 105,000 psi = INCREDIBLE wear protection
.
• 90,000 to 105,000 psi = OUTSTANDING wear protection
.
• 75,000 to 90,000 psi = GOOD wear protection
.
• 60,000 to 75,000 psi = MODEST wear protection
.
• Below 60,000 psi = UNDESIRABLE wear protection
The HIGHER the psi value, the BETTER the Wear Protection.
With aftermarket additive package added to base oil
1. Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN synthetic = 136,658 psi
2. Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 130,366 psi
3. Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 117,028 psi
4. 5W30 Motul 300V Ester Core 4T Racing Oil, synthetic = 112,464 psi
This Motorcycle Road Racing oil is from France and comes in liter bottles (slightly more than a quart)
.
5. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM synthetic = 111,570 psi
6. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 10W30 Brad Penn, Penn Grade 1 semi-synthetic = 111,061psi
7. 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM synthetic (per the Oil Company, even though synthetic wording is not shown on the label) = 110,286 psi
8. 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend (red bottle) = 108,045 psi
9. 10W30 Lucas Racing Only synthetic = 106,505 psi
10. CFS 0W30 NT Millers Nanodrive Racing Oil, API SM synthetic = 105,907 psi
11. 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 105,875 psi
12. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 10W30 Lucas Hot Rod & Classic Hi-
13. 0W30 Amsoil Signature Series 25,000 miles, API SN synthetic = 105,008 psi
14. 5W30 Joe Gibbs Driven LS30 Performance Motor Oil, synthetic = 104,487 psi
The bottle says it is formulated specifically for high output GM LS engines, and that no ZDDP or additives required. This is by far, the best performing Joe Gibbs oil I’ve ever tested. It is at the very top of the OUTSTANDING wear protection category, and fell just short of the INCREDIBLE wear protection category..
15. 10W30 Valvoline NSL (Not Street Legal) Conventional Racing Oil = 103,846 psi.
16. 5W50 Motorcraft, API SN synthetic = 103,517 psi
17. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Conventional Racing Oil (silver bottle) = 103,505 psi
18. 5W30 Amsoil Series 3000 Heavy Duty Diesel Oil synthetic, API CI-4 PLUS, CF, SL, ACEA A3/B3, E2, E3, E5, E7 = 102,642 psi
This is BY FAR, the highest ranked Diesel oil I have ever testedmoly = TBD
19. 5W30 Pennzoil High Mileage Vehicle, API SN, conventional = 102,402 psi
High Mileage oils are formulated for older engines with over 75,000 miles on them. And High Mileage oils include “Seal Swell” chemicals to help reduce oil leakage in those older engines.
20. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 102,059 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 105,875 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 3.6%”.
21. 10W30 Valvoline VR1 Synthetic Racing Oil, API SL (black bottle) = 101,139 psi
22. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 100,252 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi. But, with 1.5 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the bottle’s instruction for street driven vehicles, its wear protection capability “WENT UP A WHOPPING 30%”.
23. 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional (blue bottle) = 100,011 psi
24. 5W20 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic (gold bottle) = 99,983 psi
25. 5W30 Pennzoil Platinum, API SN synthetic = 99,949 psi
26. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 99,529 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi.
27. 5W30 Pennzoil “Ultra” Platinum, Pure Plus Technology, made from pure natural gas, API SN = 99,039 psi
28. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Oil Extreme Motor Oil, API SM synthetic = 98,396 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 110,286 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 11%”.
29. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 97,651 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi. But, with 3.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, its wear protection capability “WENT UP 27%”.
30. 10W30 Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil synthetic = 97,118 psi
31. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Pennzoil, API SN conventional, (yellow bottle) = 96,739 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of only 76,989 psi. But, with 4.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, its wear protection capability “WENT UP 26%”.
32. 20W50 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 96,514 psi
33. 30 wt Red Line Race Oil synthetic = 96,470 psi
34. 0W20 Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy, API SN synthetic = 96,364 psi
35. 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability, API SN synthetic = 95,920 psi
36. 5W30 Castrol Edge with Titanium, API SN synthetic (gold bottle) = 95,717 psi
37. 10W30 Joe Gibbs XP3 NASCAR Racing Oil synthetic = 95,543 psi
38. 5W20 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,543 psi
39. 5W30 Castrol GTX, API SN conventional = 95,392 psi
40. 10W30 Amsoil Z-Rod Oil synthetic = 95,360 psi
41. 5W30 Havoline, API SN conventional = 95,098 psi
42. 5W30 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,942 psi
43. “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to 5W30 Chevron Supreme, API SN conventional (blue bottle) = 94,864 psi
This oil on its own WITHOUT the “Oil Extreme concentrate” added to it, has a wear protection capability of 100,011 psi. But, with 2.0 OZ of concentrate added per qt, which is the amount intended for racing, its wear protection capability “WENT DOWN 5.1%”.
44. 5W30 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 94,744 psi
45. 5W20 Mobil 1, API SN synthetic = 94,663 psi
46. 5W20 Valvoline SynPower, API SN synthetic = 94,460 psi
47. 10W40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T, four stroke Motorcycle oil, synthetic = 93,661 psi
48. 5W30 Eneos, API SN, synthetic = 93,135 psi
49. 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SN synthetic = 92,569 psi
50. 5W30 Lucas, API SN conventional = 92,073 psi
51. 5W30 O’Reilly (house brand), API SN conventional = 91,433 psi
52. 5W30 Castrol GTX High Mileage, API SN, synthetic blend = 91,404 psi
53. 5W30 Maxima RS530 Synthetic Racing Oil = 91,162 psi
54. 5W30 Red Line, API SN synthetic = 91,028 psi
55. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 90,434 psi
56. 10W30 Quaker State Defy High Mileage, API SL semi-synthetic = 90,226 psi
57. 10W60 Castrol TWS Motorsport, API SJ conventional = 90,163 psi
58. 5W20 Valvoline Premium Conventional, API SN = 90,144 psi
Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving to you all!
,
11-25-2015, 05:11 PM
#33
What a great post and link. Thanks!
And Happy Turkey Day to you and yours!
And Happy Turkey Day to you and yours!
11-26-2015, 05:07 AM
#34
Motul 300v 5w-40.
If it was just a street car, probably Rotella T6 5w-40 or Mobil 1 0w-40.
I run Rotella T6 in every other car I own except my diesel truck which gets triple T because I can buy it by the 2.5gal jug at Tractor Supply.
If it was just a street car, probably Rotella T6 5w-40 or Mobil 1 0w-40.
I run Rotella T6 in every other car I own except my diesel truck which gets triple T because I can buy it by the 2.5gal jug at Tractor Supply.
11-26-2015, 10:04 AM
#35
Yes, I always laugh at the 'I run this oil, and have no problems' posts. What problems do you think you would have?
Unless you are doing oil analysis, if you used a very inappropriate oil, and were getting say, twice the wear you should, you wouldn't even know.
So saying you have no issues is a very ignorant statement. Ignorant in that you really don't know, ignorant in that you think you could draw any conclusions in thos scenario from lack of symptoms.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
Unless you are doing oil analysis, if you used a very inappropriate oil, and were getting say, twice the wear you should, you wouldn't even know.
So saying you have no issues is a very ignorant statement. Ignorant in that you really don't know, ignorant in that you think you could draw any conclusions in thos scenario from lack of symptoms.
Sent from my SM-G920P using IB AutoGroup
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