Bottom End Rebuild Help
08-23-2024, 08:22 AM
#1
Bottom End Rebuild Help
Hey everyone! I purchased a new to me 2006 with a bad engine for $4,500. After taking off the oil pan, I took a look and rod bearings on cylinders 1 and 2 are gone. I'm getting ready to take off the rod caps and look at the crankshaft. What else should I look at while I'm here?
It seems like these F series engines are hard to rebuild, which sucks because that's what I was hoping to do. I only have a couple thousand to put into this car, so a used engine is unfortunately out of the question.
From the research I've done so far, it seems like I'm going to need a new crank, and rods. I dont have the tools to determine clearances etc. So I would be willing to bring it to a shop if need be. Even then, I see that there's risk in doing that too.
I'm just lost on what the best approach is. For reference, this will be my weekend car, it's probably only going to be driven about a thousand miles a year, tops.
I could really use your years of expertise, and I thank you all very much in advance for the help.
It seems like these F series engines are hard to rebuild, which sucks because that's what I was hoping to do. I only have a couple thousand to put into this car, so a used engine is unfortunately out of the question.
From the research I've done so far, it seems like I'm going to need a new crank, and rods. I dont have the tools to determine clearances etc. So I would be willing to bring it to a shop if need be. Even then, I see that there's risk in doing that too.
I'm just lost on what the best approach is. For reference, this will be my weekend car, it's probably only going to be driven about a thousand miles a year, tops.
I could really use your years of expertise, and I thank you all very much in advance for the help.
08-23-2024, 08:32 AM
#2
If you find a crank that is going to eat up your budget alone. Last I saw I think people were selling the crank for ridiculous prices.
Big question is if the cylinders were damaged. If they are scored enough to catch a fingernail, they are toast. Cannot bore them out enough to fix that without boring through the FRM material. So I would pull the head too and start inspecting the cylinders. Should be checked for roundness too. If the cylinders are beyond repair your options are sleeving them which many times comes with reliability issues and for sure will cost more than your budget, or finding a used motor which is going to run you more than a couple of grand unfortunately for a used one. But I think you are already in it for more than a couple of grand if bearings are toast and crank is not salvageable.
If the bearings are trashed enough, start looking for metal shavings. Pull the vtec solenoid out and inspect the screen, cut the oil filter open, etc. If finding metal there, then head may be suspect too. I am not sure how bad your bearings are so cannot really say how much damage could be done. If caught soon enough people have gone the new bearing route and kept it running.
On the other hand, if the rest of the car is still in decent shape, you got a hell of a deal and I would hold onto it until you can spend a bit to fix it. Depending on condition, you could probably sell it still for more than you paid if you are patient.
Big question is if the cylinders were damaged. If they are scored enough to catch a fingernail, they are toast. Cannot bore them out enough to fix that without boring through the FRM material. So I would pull the head too and start inspecting the cylinders. Should be checked for roundness too. If the cylinders are beyond repair your options are sleeving them which many times comes with reliability issues and for sure will cost more than your budget, or finding a used motor which is going to run you more than a couple of grand unfortunately for a used one. But I think you are already in it for more than a couple of grand if bearings are toast and crank is not salvageable.
If the bearings are trashed enough, start looking for metal shavings. Pull the vtec solenoid out and inspect the screen, cut the oil filter open, etc. If finding metal there, then head may be suspect too. I am not sure how bad your bearings are so cannot really say how much damage could be done. If caught soon enough people have gone the new bearing route and kept it running.
On the other hand, if the rest of the car is still in decent shape, you got a hell of a deal and I would hold onto it until you can spend a bit to fix it. Depending on condition, you could probably sell it still for more than you paid if you are patient.
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micro Graham (08-23-2024)
08-23-2024, 08:55 AM
#3
If the bearings are trashed enough, start looking for metal shavings. Pull the vtec solenoid out and inspect the screen, cut the oil filter open, etc. If finding metal there, then head may be suspect too. I am not sure how bad your bearings are so cannot really say how much damage could be done. If caught soon enough people have gone the new bearing route and kept it running.
On the other hand, if the rest of the car is still in decent shape, you got a hell of a deal and I would hold onto it until you can spend a bit to fix it. Depending on condition, you could probably sell it still for more than you paid if you are patient.
On the other hand, if the rest of the car is still in decent shape, you got a hell of a deal and I would hold onto it until you can spend a bit to fix it. Depending on condition, you could probably sell it still for more than you paid if you are patient.
Otherwise the car is in pretty good shape. All 10 vins are in tact. Paint is pretty bad though, and there's a few dents. Nothing that can't be fixed though. I just saw an S2000 for $4,500 and told myself "I can't let this be the one that gets away."
Thanks for the info. I'll keep this thread updated with what I find.
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engifineer (08-23-2024)
08-23-2024, 08:56 AM
#4
You've never used Plastigauge before? It's pretty cheap --- you don't need expensive equipment, just a torque wrench.
https://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html
https://www.plastigaugeusa.com/how.html
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micro Graham (08-23-2024)
08-23-2024, 09:07 AM
#5
I see you guys talking about it. I haven't heard about it until recently. I'll look at getting some.
But the main thing is this is my first project car. Most I've done so far is just maintenance on my Civic, and interior modifications. Probably not the best first project car, but I couldn't say no.
But the main thing is this is my first project car. Most I've done so far is just maintenance on my Civic, and interior modifications. Probably not the best first project car, but I couldn't say no.
08-23-2024, 09:30 AM
#6
Find out what's wrong. If the bores are in good shape, then you'll need a new crank, bearings, gaskets seals and a new oil pump. There's plenty of brand new OEM crankshafts on Ebay, shipped straight from Japan for ~$1,200.
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micro Graham (08-23-2024),
Save the Manual Wagons! (08-23-2024)
08-23-2024, 09:32 AM
#7
If you find a crank that is going to eat up your budget alone. Last I saw I think people were selling the crank for ridiculous prices.
Big question is if the cylinders were damaged. If they are scored enough to catch a fingernail, they are toast. Cannot bore them out enough to fix that without boring through the FRM material. So I would pull the head too and start inspecting the cylinders. Should be checked for roundness too. If the cylinders are beyond repair your options are sleeving them which many times comes with reliability issues and for sure will cost more than your budget, or finding a used motor which is going to run you more than a couple of grand unfortunately for a used one. But I think you are already in it for more than a couple of grand if bearings are toast and crank is not salvageable.
If the bearings are trashed enough, start looking for metal shavings. Pull the vtec solenoid out and inspect the screen, cut the oil filter open, etc. If finding metal there, then head may be suspect too. I am not sure how bad your bearings are so cannot really say how much damage could be done. If caught soon enough people have gone the new bearing route and kept it running.
On the other hand, if the rest of the car is still in decent shape, you got a hell of a deal and I would hold onto it until you can spend a bit to fix it. Depending on condition, you could probably sell it still for more than you paid if you are patient.
Big question is if the cylinders were damaged. If they are scored enough to catch a fingernail, they are toast. Cannot bore them out enough to fix that without boring through the FRM material. So I would pull the head too and start inspecting the cylinders. Should be checked for roundness too. If the cylinders are beyond repair your options are sleeving them which many times comes with reliability issues and for sure will cost more than your budget, or finding a used motor which is going to run you more than a couple of grand unfortunately for a used one. But I think you are already in it for more than a couple of grand if bearings are toast and crank is not salvageable.
If the bearings are trashed enough, start looking for metal shavings. Pull the vtec solenoid out and inspect the screen, cut the oil filter open, etc. If finding metal there, then head may be suspect too. I am not sure how bad your bearings are so cannot really say how much damage could be done. If caught soon enough people have gone the new bearing route and kept it running.
On the other hand, if the rest of the car is still in decent shape, you got a hell of a deal and I would hold onto it until you can spend a bit to fix it. Depending on condition, you could probably sell it still for more than you paid if you are patient.
Cranks go from $850 for used, $1,200 for new. The dealership will charge you ~$1,800-2,200. You can still get factory fresh crankshafts from Japan.
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micro Graham (08-23-2024)
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08-23-2024, 09:33 AM
#8
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micro Graham (08-23-2024)
08-23-2024, 04:35 PM
#9
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A rebuild is going to cost you as much or more than a good used engine. And the success rate is low, so it may not even work out for more than a few months.
Or is there some other factor than cost that makes a used engine a no-go?
Or is there some other factor than cost that makes a used engine a no-go?
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micro Graham (08-23-2024)
08-23-2024, 07:00 PM
#10
Success rate is low if you don't follow directions, or try to use non-oem stuff. Agree about the price. You take a chance with a used engine, you also take a chance with a re-build, costs are similar.
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micro Graham (08-23-2024)