block your throttle body coolant
08-20-2005, 05:01 PM
#22
Community Organizer
Originally Posted by Hondassport,Aug 20 2005, 05:43 PM
I have seen no change in idle quality, 950-1000 rpm, doesn't dip ,stumble or anything, this is totally invisible except it runs better. I have done test with OBD-II tester and Intake Air Temp was reduced 5-10 deg . Average Spark Advance went up 4-5 deg. Try it 5 minutes and .80 cents.
Sorry forgot ,cold start is completely normal, no change. People spend 250$ for a cold air intake then heat the air back up in a hot intake manifold.
Sorry forgot ,cold start is completely normal, no change. People spend 250$ for a cold air intake then heat the air back up in a hot intake manifold.
Based on humidity and/or air temp cold start is normal. It does take a minutes or two longer, to get to three bars.
On average MY01 Intake Air Temp dropped 19 degrees and Spark Advance increased by 5 degrees.
08-20-2005, 05:08 PM
#23
I think you should patent this thing and sell it to Honda and reverse the tables on them like they did when they threatened to sue over Rick Hesel and this site for using Honda logos. 
On a side note:
Any bets that Honda sees this information and one day, we'll find them incorporate some sort of thermostatically controlled shut off device in that line?
You, know like they changed the secondary output shaft ratio on the tranny because so many people were putting in 4.44s at the time?
Or altering the fuel trim one later cars when they saw lots of people messing with VAFCs to get a few more horsies?
How about the idea of going to 17" wheels?
On a side note:
Any bets that Honda sees this information and one day, we'll find them incorporate some sort of thermostatically controlled shut off device in that line?
You, know like they changed the secondary output shaft ratio on the tranny because so many people were putting in 4.44s at the time?
Or altering the fuel trim one later cars when they saw lots of people messing with VAFCs to get a few more horsies?
How about the idea of going to 17" wheels?
08-20-2005, 08:29 PM
#25
Registered User
Wow I love this mod. Right before I did it, the intake manifold was too hot to hold my hand down on it. Had to wait a few hours til it cooled down with a fan blowing on it to cool it faster. After doing the mod, which took all of 10 min., took the car out for a nice 100 mile cruise into the foothills and back. Popped the hood to check for leaks and could rest my hand on the manifold managebly. 
08-20-2005, 08:29 PM
#26
Registered User
FYI, this "mod" was debunked. it does nothing for your car.
not only was this proven to do nothing by dyno, but temperature tests have been done as well. the change in temperature was barely .5 degrees.
the majority of the heating up of your intake charge is via heat coming off the head and heating up the intake manifold.
as for this "TB bypass" mod, the reason is, the TB simply does not have enough surface area to really heat up the air intake temps much hotter than they already are, considering the volume of air flowing through.
[QUOTE]the basic equation for a heat exchange is going to be to the effect of q=UAdeltaT (McCabe, Smith, and Harriott 6th edition, Unit of operations of Chemical Engineering) where q is the total heat transfer, A is the transfer area, U is the overall thermal conductivity and of course deltaT is the change in temperature. Now all I have to do is look at the throttle body and say that it has surface area in the realm of 12-20 square inches and the volumetric flow is around 459ft3/min (from your earlier example using an LS1 engine) and converting that to inches we get 793,152 cubic inches per minute. So, with that kind of flow and that kind of surface area with an approach temperature of only 100F (80C air and 180F TB which is very unlikely), I would say the largest delta T can be is 1, maybe 2. Using honda engine volumetric flow, the change would be maybe 3.
not only was this proven to do nothing by dyno, but temperature tests have been done as well. the change in temperature was barely .5 degrees.
the majority of the heating up of your intake charge is via heat coming off the head and heating up the intake manifold.
as for this "TB bypass" mod, the reason is, the TB simply does not have enough surface area to really heat up the air intake temps much hotter than they already are, considering the volume of air flowing through.
[QUOTE]the basic equation for a heat exchange is going to be to the effect of q=UAdeltaT (McCabe, Smith, and Harriott 6th edition, Unit of operations of Chemical Engineering) where q is the total heat transfer, A is the transfer area, U is the overall thermal conductivity and of course deltaT is the change in temperature. Now all I have to do is look at the throttle body and say that it has surface area in the realm of 12-20 square inches and the volumetric flow is around 459ft3/min (from your earlier example using an LS1 engine) and converting that to inches we get 793,152 cubic inches per minute. So, with that kind of flow and that kind of surface area with an approach temperature of only 100F (80C air and 180F TB which is very unlikely), I would say the largest delta T can be is 1, maybe 2. Using honda engine volumetric flow, the change would be maybe 3.
08-20-2005, 08:59 PM
#29
Registered User
Info from the link provided in the first post:
Here are some numbers from a before and after the mod runs on Mike's car.
Average Intake Air Temp before 141.....120 after.
Average Spark Advance before 28......33 after.
While not a scientific study these were taken under similar weather conditions, it was abt. 4 degrees cooler for the after run. All numbers were taken with an OBD-II tester
Now I am just looking at this "mod" as a long line of heat bog solutions which means you get to keep what you have, not get any more power out of it. The info above looks to be taken from a realtime read at the OBD connector of spark advance. I wasn't there so I can't defend it.
I do think that removing all extraneous heat exchangers, the hardest one at the head connection with a hondata gasket can only help against heat soak. For the cost of this $1 "mod" and the simplicity of it, not to mention it an important part of the hondata mod itself, I say do it
Here are some numbers from a before and after the mod runs on Mike's car.
Average Intake Air Temp before 141.....120 after.
Average Spark Advance before 28......33 after.
While not a scientific study these were taken under similar weather conditions, it was abt. 4 degrees cooler for the after run. All numbers were taken with an OBD-II tester
Now I am just looking at this "mod" as a long line of heat bog solutions which means you get to keep what you have, not get any more power out of it. The info above looks to be taken from a realtime read at the OBD connector of spark advance. I wasn't there so I can't defend it.
I do think that removing all extraneous heat exchangers, the hardest one at the head connection with a hondata gasket can only help against heat soak. For the cost of this $1 "mod" and the simplicity of it, not to mention it an important part of the hondata mod itself, I say do it
08-20-2005, 09:16 PM
#30
Former Moderator
I'm not trying to discourage anyone from this "mod", If you want to try it out, go for it.
I've always doubted anyone's "butt dyno" accuracy of feeling a few HP.
Have an impartial driver drive the car. Have them come back, and block the coolant hose, then redrive. Reset the PCM before each drive.
Then ask the driver if the "Felt" anything different. Chances are, the 2nd drive will "feel" faster, because you did something under the hood.
I've always doubted anyone's "butt dyno" accuracy of feeling a few HP.
Have an impartial driver drive the car. Have them come back, and block the coolant hose, then redrive. Reset the PCM before each drive.
Then ask the driver if the "Felt" anything different. Chances are, the 2nd drive will "feel" faster, because you did something under the hood.