Bleeding brake system
11-30-2005, 01:25 PM
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Bleeding brake system
My car will be three years old in February, it's really a "Garage Queen" with only 16,000 miles and kept indoors all the time. Thus far I have done all the maintenance required, (something kind of new to me) but now the time has come to change brake and clutch fluid, something I have never done before.
I saw the excellent post by Xviper on clutch fluid and feel confident about that one, but what about brake bleeding? (could not find any specifics).
Opinions about the "power bleeder" sold on this site? Other options and tips will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Daniel
I saw the excellent post by Xviper on clutch fluid and feel confident about that one, but what about brake bleeding? (could not find any specifics).
Opinions about the "power bleeder" sold on this site? Other options and tips will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Daniel
11-30-2005, 01:35 PM
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11-30-2005, 03:07 PM
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Thanks for the links dozen5.
Questions:
1) Once you have the parts ready, car on stands and wheels off, how long does this job take?
2) Can it be done by one person with the power bleeder thing?
3) The power bleeder kit has everything you need to do the job or is there anything else needed (besides the fluid itself and tools).
4) DOT 3 or 4, which is more suitable for regular street use, longevity?
5) I noticed the "Bleeding order" Left front, right front, right rear, etc. What happens if you don't follow this sequence?
6) On the clutch fluid thread by Xviper, he sucked out the fluid with a syringe first and flushed the chamber with fresh fluid a few times, then proceeded with flushing the system. Is this the same for the brake system?
Thanks everyone.
Daniel
Questions:
1) Once you have the parts ready, car on stands and wheels off, how long does this job take?
2) Can it be done by one person with the power bleeder thing?
3) The power bleeder kit has everything you need to do the job or is there anything else needed (besides the fluid itself and tools).
4) DOT 3 or 4, which is more suitable for regular street use, longevity?
5) I noticed the "Bleeding order" Left front, right front, right rear, etc. What happens if you don't follow this sequence?
6) On the clutch fluid thread by Xviper, he sucked out the fluid with a syringe first and flushed the chamber with fresh fluid a few times, then proceeded with flushing the system. Is this the same for the brake system?
Thanks everyone.
Daniel
11-30-2005, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by dangarza,Nov 30 2005, 02:25 PM
My car will be three years old in February, it's really a "Garage Queen" with only 16,000 miles and kept indoors all the time. Thus far I have done all the maintenance required, (something kind of new to me) but now the time has come to change brake and clutch fluid, something I have never done before.
I saw the excellent post by Xviper on clutch fluid and feel confident about that one, but what about brake bleeding? (could not find any specifics).
Opinions about the "power bleeder" sold on this site? Other options and tips will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Daniel
I saw the excellent post by Xviper on clutch fluid and feel confident about that one, but what about brake bleeding? (could not find any specifics).
Opinions about the "power bleeder" sold on this site? Other options and tips will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance
Daniel
11-30-2005, 07:31 PM
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1. Having a helper is necessary if you want to get done in 30 minutes or so. I'm sure someone will help 
2. Sequence really shouldn't matter, but a while ago I had a race shop tech working on my former subaru lift the car up, crack the right rear bleeder and let it seep out slowly with gravity until the stuff came out clean, then we did bled the brakes "normally" starting with the rears first. He said that by getting all the "crud" as far away from the front calipers, it keeps the front lines cleaner. Since they're the most important that made sense, but how much difference it really makes I dunno.
3. Chage it once a year and you'll never need to worry about longevity.
Good luck and have fun,
Bassem
2. Sequence really shouldn't matter, but a while ago I had a race shop tech working on my former subaru lift the car up, crack the right rear bleeder and let it seep out slowly with gravity until the stuff came out clean, then we did bled the brakes "normally" starting with the rears first. He said that by getting all the "crud" as far away from the front calipers, it keeps the front lines cleaner. Since they're the most important that made sense, but how much difference it really makes I dunno.
3. Chage it once a year and you'll never need to worry about longevity.
Good luck and have fun,
Bassem
12-01-2005, 05:20 AM
#6
FWIW the recommended brake bleeding sequence on an S2000 is PF, PR, DR, and finally DF. Basically start at the passenger front and work yourself around the car clockwise.
If you're NOT using the Power Bleeder, then I've found that it takes between 15 and 20 pumps on the brake pedal to clear the old fluid from the brake line your bleeding. Try and avoid taking the brake pedal all the way to the floor when pumping. This can cause seal failures in the master cylinder as the piston explores new regions of the master cylinder, NOT seen in normal braking situations.
Speed Bleeders or Solo Bleeders make the pedal pump method much more efficient. Some have found the brake pedal feel NOT quite as firm when using Speed/Solo bleeders. I use Speed bleeders and flush the fluid every year (probably overkill, every two years would be sufficient for a mostly street driven car), swapping between ATE Super Blue and ATE Gold fluid. Using the two different color fluids gives you a clear indication of when the old fluid has been flushed. My experience with Speed bleeders has led to NO loss of brake pedal feel. http://marketplace.s2ki.com/s2ki/home.php?cat=17
That being said I bought the Motive Power bleeder. My next flush I plan on switching back to the OEM bleeders and using my new "tool."
If you're NOT using the Power Bleeder, then I've found that it takes between 15 and 20 pumps on the brake pedal to clear the old fluid from the brake line your bleeding. Try and avoid taking the brake pedal all the way to the floor when pumping. This can cause seal failures in the master cylinder as the piston explores new regions of the master cylinder, NOT seen in normal braking situations.
Speed Bleeders or Solo Bleeders make the pedal pump method much more efficient. Some have found the brake pedal feel NOT quite as firm when using Speed/Solo bleeders. I use Speed bleeders and flush the fluid every year (probably overkill, every two years would be sufficient for a mostly street driven car), swapping between ATE Super Blue and ATE Gold fluid. Using the two different color fluids gives you a clear indication of when the old fluid has been flushed. My experience with Speed bleeders has led to NO loss of brake pedal feel. http://marketplace.s2ki.com/s2ki/home.php?cat=17
That being said I bought the Motive Power bleeder. My next flush I plan on switching back to the OEM bleeders and using my new "tool."
12-01-2005, 06:27 AM
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I bought a vacuum bleeder from GriotsGarage.com that uses an air compressor. I have personally bled at least a dozen cars with this tool and will never use anything else. The Helms manual sequence is left front, right front, right rear, left rear.
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12-01-2005, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by HOTRODS2000,Dec 1 2005, 09:27 AM
I bought a vacuum bleeder from GriotsGarage.com that uses an air compressor. I have personally bled at least a dozen cars with this tool and will never use anything else. The Helms manual sequence is left front, right front, right rear, left rear.
on the bleed order (Helms Manual).So with the power bleeders you still have to pump the brake pedal?
12-01-2005, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Gloffer,Dec 1 2005, 06:20 AM
FWIW the recommended brake bleeding sequence on an S2000 is PF, PR, DR, and finally DF. Basically start at the passenger front and work yourself around the car clockwise.
On page 19-9 of my 2002 Helm manual, the recommended bleeding sequence is shown as DF, PF, PR, DR. Basically start at the front left (driver's front) and work your way around clockwise.
12-01-2005, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dangarza,Nov 30 2005, 04:07 PM
Thanks for the links dozen5.
Questions:
1) Once you have the parts ready, car on stands and wheels off, how long does this job take?
2) Can it be done by one person with the power bleeder thing?
3) The power bleeder kit has everything you need to do the job or is there anything else needed (besides the fluid itself and tools).
4) DOT 3 or 4, which is more suitable for regular street use, longevity?
5) I noticed the "Bleeding order" Left front, right front, right rear, etc. What happens if you don't follow this sequence?
6) On the clutch fluid thread by Xviper, he sucked out the fluid with a syringe first and flushed the chamber with fresh fluid a few times, then proceeded with flushing the system. Is this the same for the brake system?
Thanks everyone.
Daniel
Questions:
1) Once you have the parts ready, car on stands and wheels off, how long does this job take?
2) Can it be done by one person with the power bleeder thing?
3) The power bleeder kit has everything you need to do the job or is there anything else needed (besides the fluid itself and tools).
4) DOT 3 or 4, which is more suitable for regular street use, longevity?
5) I noticed the "Bleeding order" Left front, right front, right rear, etc. What happens if you don't follow this sequence?
6) On the clutch fluid thread by Xviper, he sucked out the fluid with a syringe first and flushed the chamber with fresh fluid a few times, then proceeded with flushing the system. Is this the same for the brake system?
Thanks everyone.
Daniel
2. never used power bleeder
3. see #2
4. On a street driven car, DOT 3 is more than sufficient. Going to DOT 4 will give you higher boiling points, but is more hydrophilic so you'll have to bleed more often.
5. I believe the sequence is there to limit introducing air/contaiminates into the system, but I'm not positive (someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Personally, I don't see why you wouldn't follow the sequence.
6. I don't think it's necessary to suck out the fluid from the resevoir first. I think Xviper suggests this for clutch bleed b/c there's usually a bunch of crap in the clutch resevoir (esp. if you haven't flushed in a while) that you probably don't want to suck through the lines. This won't be the case for your brake resevoir (at least not that I've noticed) Also, if I remember correctly, there is a "filter" of sorts in the brake resevoir that may make this difficult.
hth
-sam