zeroptzero

No last fall after my track day issue there was some glitter in the oil that I dumped and had analyzed, which subsequently had higher lead and iron readings as shown in the UOA. I pulled the oil pan though and found zero metal in the pan. I did a couple of oil changes since then and never seen anything again and the last oil change was just a couple weeks prior to the "bad" day.

SLracer

Spitfire, are you saying to pull the pistons to clean it out? I think the filter was getting most of the small particles, I cannot really see much glitter in the top end, plus I filled it with new oil to get it to base am kinda hoping that will clean up remnants. I will see what it looks like once its out and see how quickly this glitter is forming

zeroptzero

With the bucket load of metal in the bottom of my oil pan I still did not find one speck of metal on the top end, not even a sliver. I am not sure of the route the oil system takes but it must have been filtered prior to getting to the top end. I did find some metal on my vtec solenoid screen.

The glitter in your oil must have been small enough to pass through the oil filter in order to be suspended in the oil. I would do a couple of short fills and drains with some cheaper oil to flush out any residual metal.

SLracer

Yea, I will probably do that, now this lower seal kit you were talking about, is this the Cylinder Block Gasket Kit, Part# 06111-PCX-020? This is the only gasket kit I have found that seems kinda close to what you are talking about. Also while I have the car running again to bring it to where I will pull it, how can I check to make sure the oil pump isn't going? I have been debating replacing it while I am in there just because, which is probably unnecessary but I want to make sure I know if it is.

Billman250

I think you will be sorry if you pull the pistons out.

Once you do, you will lose the seating position of the rings. Then the cylinder needs to be honed and new rings installed, which apparently not many can do. Many of these engines wind up burning oil after a rebuild because of the FRM liners and shops that cannot hone them properly.

As far as rod bearings, plastic gauge them plain and simple. Do it now before you pull the engine and wind up with a bigger problem you can never come back from.

You cant just change all the parts and call it good. you have to find the underlying cause of the issue, or your engine will suffer again.

Did you measure oil pressure? Crank thrust?

Billman250

My guess is something happened when you did the oil jet job. Something foreign, like a piece of old hondabond or new hondabond got into the oil pump pickup. Have you looked inside the pickup?

What did you find in the VTEC screen?

You should also pull the oil jets out and look for debris sitting on top of the bolts. Trust me if its in the pan, it's on top of the bolts.

zeroptzero

Billman250 do you mean actually sitting on the exterior of the bolts or inside the oil jet bolts ?, I pulled mine out the other day and I could see anything on the exterior but I was wondering if anything could have gotten into the bolts, the holes are so small though it's hard to tell.]

OP- I believe that is the same seal kit I was referring to, it should supply all the seals on the block that you would need. I haven't received mine yet so I can't say exactly what part number it is or what it contains but from what I know it is all of the seals and o-rings you would need.

I'm doing my oil pump replacement while I'm in there, I can't say for sure the oil pump was an issue but the new oil pump part supercedes the old ap1 pump and I think it could be a good upgrade and some peace of mind if nothing else.

SLracer

Thanks for responding Billman, yea that was my thought on the pistons which is why I was planning on leaving them in place. The Plastigauge is on its way now I plan on doing it once the engine is out and as I replace the bearings, why would I have to do this before I pull the engine if I already see that the current bearings are worn to the copper? I have a feeling the cause was something on the top end, like I said I was having the problem of dropping out of VTEC which was most likely caused by oil pressure dropping and I think this is when the damage occured, a partial pressure loss. When I took the top end back apart and reassembled it the dropping out of VTEC stopped and everything sounded much more normal, however, I had a loss of power.

I now have an oil pressure sensor and gauge so on the way to where I will be pulling the engine I plan to have an eye on it, checking for good pressure to check the oil pump is good as well as a quick test of the pressure under load like where it seemed to be dropping before. Crank thrust I have not checked and can do that when the engine is out.

I checked the oil pressure pickup and see nothing lodged in there so I don't believe that was the problem. The VTEC screen wasn't awful just a little glitter but nowhere near the amount in the pan. I still suspect the baffle a little but have no proof, really wish I had this pressure sensor before though.

SpitfireS

So if debris made it in the oil jets, it made it past the filter (in bypass with cold oil) so it could be / is everywhere.
Right?
In all the oil galleries in the block too, feeding the crank mains.
In the crankshaft itself, feeding the connecting rod journals.
Not up top as all oil goes through the VTEC screen - but that screen is no filter material.

I've never seen any of block oil galleries in an F20 but I think it is safe to assume there are some dead area's where stuff can hide for a while.
What if one (or two) of the glitters decide to go for a swim, when you're driving around with your new bearings at 8500 rpm?
They are allready behind the filter.

Maybe I'm over cautious?
Or paranoid?
Or wrong?

In the service manual they mention to not reuse old piston rings.
They do not mention to hone after just removing pistons and using new rings, without any FRM damage or wear.
Experience beats a manual 100% though.

Maybe there is a difference in complexity between honing to get a new diamond pattern and boring to an oversize?
Honing to the service limit means removing 0,026mm max.
Boring means removing 0,25mm
I donno.
The description of honing is not that complicated: 400 grit stone, brand Sunnen or Ammco or simular, 60 degree angle.

I can see these tiny bearing parts hanging on by the fingernails to not get sucked into the main oil steam.
Until one of them shouts: Lets go for a ride guys!

rrounds

One way to keep the oil filter out of by-pass is a larger oil filter.
I run a Baldwin B7042(14 psid by-pass) on my S, its over twice as large as the stock oil filter for the S.
http://s949.photobucket.com/albums/a...Oil%20Filters/
I have over 48k miles with this filter on my car and the two UOA's that I got came back great(I run 7500 miles on the oil and 15k miles on the filter). If you want a filter that has a higher by-pass pressure then I would use the B202 filter(same size as the B7042 but with a 20 psid by-pass spring).

When I was drag racing full time back in the early 70's I had a (bright)light that would come on when the oil pressure would drop below 50 psi, it was on at idle but anything over 2500 rpm it would be off. That way if I lost some oil pressure going down the strip(never did happen) the light would turn on and I could push in the clutch and coast with little to no engine damage. You can do the same thing for your car, mine was adjustable so I could set it to turn on the light at any oil pressure I wanted.

ROD
p.s. seen a lot of engines lately with metal in the oil, not a good sign.