Bearing Wear
#11
Too bad the motor's apart. Testing oil pressures at hot and cold temps would atleast rule out a failing oil pump. Then again, I assume that you'd get some intermittent oil lights if that were the case.
#12
To me, that baffle would be first suspect. It's the newest change you've done that's not to oem standards, that directly affects engine wear/oil pressure. And the fact that it was only happening in 4-6 gears may suggest a combination of inertia+baffle = oil starvation (I failed physics).
Kind of a wild guess really, but I think it's worth it to reinstall the stock pan, and test oil pressures at manufacturer's recommendations. If they pass then inspect pressures at v-tec. That's if you don't find a more direct problem/ solution while the motor's apart.
Kind of a wild guess really, but I think it's worth it to reinstall the stock pan, and test oil pressures at manufacturer's recommendations. If they pass then inspect pressures at v-tec. That's if you don't find a more direct problem/ solution while the motor's apart.
#16
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What brand of baffle is it?
Did you buy it with the oil pan?
On the picture showing the complete pan, it looks like the baffle is no longer welded to the pan.
Is the baffle still fixed? (it does not rattle?)
Who decided on the hight of the baffle in relation to the bottom of the pan?
This is the Spoon pan (not proud or anything to mention Spoon again, it was the only compete pan I could find in Europe so that's why I bought it)
Your baffle does not seem to have the "downrights" if you know what I mean.
And, no offence, the welds on your pan don't look .. nice
This pan has been on the engine for 81k km, during high speed runs in Germany and on the twisty's without any issues.
Besides all of this: I think at some point there was some oil starvation.
Enough to damage (a) bearing(s) but not enough to trigger missfire CEL's & the oil warning light at a hot idle.
And enough to make the car struggle to get to redine, right?
I mean, it did still struggle after you found an oil "leak" in the valve train, with the cam tower bolt you had to re-tap and re-tighten?
Btw.. that cam tower bolt did reach the right torque setting without any doubt? (22Nm)
As far as I've been reading here - Slow and Billman will hopefully confirm - the connecting rods / big ends suffer first from oil starvation.
Now as your rod bearings look ok, where did the sparkly bits come from?
They look to be copper coloured, right?
If you find no damage (scoring) to the FRM walls as Billman suggested and you found no wear on the cams / towers then the crank main journals are the only bearings left?
As far as I know, FRM is white and all the valve train bearings are alu, apart from the cam chain sprocket.
Good luck
Did you buy it with the oil pan?
On the picture showing the complete pan, it looks like the baffle is no longer welded to the pan.
Is the baffle still fixed? (it does not rattle?)
Who decided on the hight of the baffle in relation to the bottom of the pan?
This is the Spoon pan (not proud or anything to mention Spoon again, it was the only compete pan I could find in Europe so that's why I bought it)
Your baffle does not seem to have the "downrights" if you know what I mean.
And, no offence, the welds on your pan don't look .. nice
This pan has been on the engine for 81k km, during high speed runs in Germany and on the twisty's without any issues.
Besides all of this: I think at some point there was some oil starvation.
Enough to damage (a) bearing(s) but not enough to trigger missfire CEL's & the oil warning light at a hot idle.
And enough to make the car struggle to get to redine, right?
I mean, it did still struggle after you found an oil "leak" in the valve train, with the cam tower bolt you had to re-tap and re-tighten?
Btw.. that cam tower bolt did reach the right torque setting without any doubt? (22Nm)
As far as I've been reading here - Slow and Billman will hopefully confirm - the connecting rods / big ends suffer first from oil starvation.
Now as your rod bearings look ok, where did the sparkly bits come from?
They look to be copper coloured, right?
If you find no damage (scoring) to the FRM walls as Billman suggested and you found no wear on the cams / towers then the crank main journals are the only bearings left?
As far as I know, FRM is white and all the valve train bearings are alu, apart from the cam chain sprocket.
Good luck
#17
Registered User
Thread Starter
I checked everything on the head over including valve adjustment and torques when I had it apart the second time. The one bolt that seemed a little odd to me I just cleaned up the thread with a die and all the bolts definitely reached the torque specified in the manual I was very careful to be exact, particularly the second time around. At first I wasn't sure if they were copper or not but what is on the bottom of the pan definitely appears to be.
The baffle was welded in by a local shop, yea its not pretty but I didn't think it would matter much. The baffle is from a vendor on this site Alloy Craft, I have searched around and haven't heard of others having issues. I was considering making some holes in it similar to what the Spoon one has towards the back side of it in case I am simply draining all the oil in the bottom portion under acceleration and have oil trapped above the baffle. There is no rattling and the welds are all intact. As far as the height that was just where it fit which I assumed made it the proper positioning.
The symptoms I am having now is essentially just a little top end power lost. If I was in the states and just ripping through the gears to 70 mph I wouldn't notice a thing. When its noticeable is when I am doing top speed run type of things, I have had the car up to 238 kph but now I hit 214 and it was going no faster. It reaches redline just fine in all the lower gears. I am running to the store now to grab a penlight, I looked up there with an area light and didn't see anything out of the ordinary but I will gladly give it another shot.
Thanks for your help guys, I feel kinda in the dark all the way over here and the help is much appreciated!
The baffle was welded in by a local shop, yea its not pretty but I didn't think it would matter much. The baffle is from a vendor on this site Alloy Craft, I have searched around and haven't heard of others having issues. I was considering making some holes in it similar to what the Spoon one has towards the back side of it in case I am simply draining all the oil in the bottom portion under acceleration and have oil trapped above the baffle. There is no rattling and the welds are all intact. As far as the height that was just where it fit which I assumed made it the proper positioning.
The symptoms I am having now is essentially just a little top end power lost. If I was in the states and just ripping through the gears to 70 mph I wouldn't notice a thing. When its noticeable is when I am doing top speed run type of things, I have had the car up to 238 kph but now I hit 214 and it was going no faster. It reaches redline just fine in all the lower gears. I am running to the store now to grab a penlight, I looked up there with an area light and didn't see anything out of the ordinary but I will gladly give it another shot.
Thanks for your help guys, I feel kinda in the dark all the way over here and the help is much appreciated!
#18
Registered User
Thread Starter
Alright so I checked out the cylinder walls and they look perfect, had a friend slowly turn the crank while I was underneith with the penlight and a mirror and can confidently say I saw every inch of the walls and they are nothing but mirrors. I also pulled the VTEC solenoid again and cleaned out the screen which just had the same glittery stuff you've seen in the rest of the pictures.
So I feel like I have looked at everything I possibly could at this stage here are the options I currently see, please let me know which path you think I should be going:
1) Pull the engine, the bearing damage hasn't been found so it is probably the main bearings.
2) Replace the rod end bearings they are causing the power loss
3) Rod end bearings are still usable, throw everything back together use fresh oil, modify baffle and install an oil pressure gauge to monitor for problems.
I would really like to get stuff ordered for whichever route I should take since I will be in Italy this week and can get back to figuring it out with the parts when I return.
So I feel like I have looked at everything I possibly could at this stage here are the options I currently see, please let me know which path you think I should be going:
1) Pull the engine, the bearing damage hasn't been found so it is probably the main bearings.
2) Replace the rod end bearings they are causing the power loss
3) Rod end bearings are still usable, throw everything back together use fresh oil, modify baffle and install an oil pressure gauge to monitor for problems.
I would really like to get stuff ordered for whichever route I should take since I will be in Italy this week and can get back to figuring it out with the parts when I return.
#19
Registered User
Bearings aren't that expensive. If you are willing to do the work yourself and don't mine the down time, then I say go for it.
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#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
As in just do the rod end bearings with the engine in the car? Or pull the engine and do all the lower bearings? As to replacing bearings I have seen a lot of talk about plastigauge and different colors, can anyone help me out with a mini walk through on what I need to buy so I can get it all on order while I am gone this week?
Also I have already ordered what I need for monitoring oil temp and pressure with a SPA gauge and sensor kit and a sandwich plate. I know the sandwich plate is not the best of methods but I will be extra careful to make sure everything is on well and not leaking. This way no matter what I choose to do I can monitor what is going on in the future and hopefully not run into this problem again.
Also I have already ordered what I need for monitoring oil temp and pressure with a SPA gauge and sensor kit and a sandwich plate. I know the sandwich plate is not the best of methods but I will be extra careful to make sure everything is on well and not leaking. This way no matter what I choose to do I can monitor what is going on in the future and hopefully not run into this problem again.