fernando.

Damn. Been a while since there was beef on here. LOL

Billman250

Well, it’s not beef yet slowcrash likes his numbers correct and so do I, so we will work it out.

Billman250

Will run a test on client car today, will report back.

B serious

gonna try out that 250LB greased version that we briefly discussed on the other thread? be good to get your feedback

Billman250

Did it today, threads and face lubed with engine moly, with 250 ft-lbs the nut went 30 degrees farther than oem. Using the 3/4 drive to finsh, another 20 degrees or so.

Will try grease next time.

cosmomiller

I thought the threads were to be clean but ungreased; only the face was to have grease applied for correct torquing.

When I did mine, I had no grease available so I used a dab of surplus grease from the unused wheel jack screw shaft. Seemed to work fine.

B serious

The honda procedure is 220LB-FT, greased face, clean threads (IIRC).

However, that amount of torque with dry threads doesn't produce enough tension to prevent the clicking and the subsequent bearing failures.

The key is to balance out putting enough tension on the joint to save the bearing...BUT not so much that you over stress and break the axle stub since that's a very dangerous thing to break whilst driving.

MY recommended procedure is wire brushed threads and faces. EP grease or antiseize compound on threads, faces, and splines. After prepping, I use 250LB-FT of constantly swinging torque (very important).

For me, this has been providing enough tension to save bearings but not enough to risk snapping axle stubs. And...its fully repeatable by anybody.

Grease magnifies the effects of torque. Meaning for the same torque, you get MORE tension with grease. Grease also helps equalize external factors like humidity, temp, and individual thread friction.

Remember...the reason your torque wrench stops and clicks is because the fastener is making enough friction to act as a brake. Less friction = less braking force. Meaning you can turn the wrench further with the same force.

Billman was kind enough to try it and give his feedback.

Billman250

In the end, I have done this by feel my whole life. Trying to convey this via then net is near impossible, as there are too many factors that can affect it. Peoppe are taking the “60 degrees” too literally. 60 degrees is an average, can be more or less. This is where feel comes in.

You typically do not grease the threads. Being that most torque wrenches top out at 250, “B serious” is using the greased threads to his advantage to achieve a higher clamp load than 250 ft-lbs. He is achieving 300+ by just greasing the threads in addition to greasing the face.

I tried his method today (with MOLY, NOT grease​​​​​​) with good results. It came out about 30 degrees tighter than stock. I then used my 3/4 drive 4’ long bar to “feel” the nut. I moved it about another 15-20 degrees. On another car, following up with a feeler may not move at all.

Different cars will yield different results. Some cars a little more, some cars a little less.

“B serious” method is a great way to get you there.

Slowcrash_101

Brand new OEM nut, greased face, clean threads, same 40in breaker bar. 180ft lbs + 60° on my axle is ~300ft lbs. I had to increase my weight on a bathroom* scale by 93 lbs to move the nut face over. It's 38 and 1/8" from handle to axle stud centerline. If I'm supposed to use the entire length then it's a bit over 300. No snapped axle, no clicking. Reading around, Timken recommends 300ft lbs on their pressed hub bearings.

This is not meant to be definitive, my axle stub may be slightly stretched and requires more than someone else's hardware.

Can we say 280 is a safe and good rule of thumb number for those with the adequate TQ wrench?

B serious

280LB-FT fully greased and prepped? I assume yeah it should be fine. But...again, that's a LOT more tension than Honda is recommending.

Its likely going to result in more tension than your 300LB-FT method you described above.

Idk how fond you are of equations...but the easiest one to use is:
Torque = (Coefficient of Friction) x (Thread diameter) x (Tension Force)

Ideally, you'd solve for tension force.

You don't ever want tension to be more than 75% of the stub's yield point.

Again...no idea what the stub is made from so...your guess is as good as mine.

If you had a dial indicator and time..you could probably figure out the stub's modulus.

Fastenal has a torque/tension chart that you can use for accepted friction levels on zinc plated threads. They will give you greased and dry numbers.

I realise all this is massively boring. But its how I arrived at my 250LB greased/prepped method.


Also...use a torque wrench, bruv.