Armchair mechanics, test your skills...
10-23-2009, 02:04 AM
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Armchair mechanics, test your skills...
Basic problem: Large plume of grey smoke on pullaway, smells like oil, burns more oil than normal, is oil burning. No smoke in vtec, no smoke when engine cold.
Detailed info:
MY2001 62,000 miles, driven HARD for the last 12,000 miles. J's Racing exhaust and test pipe, K&N stock filter replacement. No other significant mods.
Three weeks ago, I noticed the car smoking heavily on pullaway from traffic lights or any kind of stop really. It only ever did it in first gear, like it was quickly burning some oil, then resuming normal service, but would do it EVERY time I stopped. We're talking a BIG plume of smoke, still visible as a cloud floating down the road after I've travelled a good 300 feet away from where I was sat. I does not dissipate quickly like steam, it hangs like oil smoke. There is no performance loss whatsoever, no check engine light ever.
It was doing it some days and not other days, mostly in the mornings. It would never smoke when cold, only after oil and water reached full temp. I took it to the mechanic who did a compression test first to try to rule out a piston ring. 215 across the board. Thank God. So, it was decided to replace the valve stem seals.
After that was done, I got the car back, and it was doing it again straight away. I told the mechanic and he said give it a day to burn off whatever is in the system. I said ok, and sure enough, the next day, no smoke. At all.
Another day went by, no smoke. Then today in the morning, it's doing it again out of nowhere. Exactly the same behavior, but slightly less smoke now. I've also discovered as a result of experimenting today, that when it has warmed up and starts smoking, if I really gun it to 9k in a couple of gears, the problem completely goes away, until the next time I start the car from cold again. It seems like churning up the oil is helping. Basically, before I 'clear it out', something is collecting and then burning it when I pull away. No changes were made to the car before the prolem started three weeks ago. If it makes any difference (and it could be my imagination), it smokes worse when the tank is early empty.
I have heard that my mechanic should have replaced the guides at the same time as the seals. Does that make sense?
Welcome any further insight into this problem please ladies and gents. Thanks very much in advance.
Detailed info:
MY2001 62,000 miles, driven HARD for the last 12,000 miles. J's Racing exhaust and test pipe, K&N stock filter replacement. No other significant mods.
Three weeks ago, I noticed the car smoking heavily on pullaway from traffic lights or any kind of stop really. It only ever did it in first gear, like it was quickly burning some oil, then resuming normal service, but would do it EVERY time I stopped. We're talking a BIG plume of smoke, still visible as a cloud floating down the road after I've travelled a good 300 feet away from where I was sat. I does not dissipate quickly like steam, it hangs like oil smoke. There is no performance loss whatsoever, no check engine light ever.
It was doing it some days and not other days, mostly in the mornings. It would never smoke when cold, only after oil and water reached full temp. I took it to the mechanic who did a compression test first to try to rule out a piston ring. 215 across the board. Thank God. So, it was decided to replace the valve stem seals.
After that was done, I got the car back, and it was doing it again straight away. I told the mechanic and he said give it a day to burn off whatever is in the system. I said ok, and sure enough, the next day, no smoke. At all.
Another day went by, no smoke. Then today in the morning, it's doing it again out of nowhere. Exactly the same behavior, but slightly less smoke now. I've also discovered as a result of experimenting today, that when it has warmed up and starts smoking, if I really gun it to 9k in a couple of gears, the problem completely goes away, until the next time I start the car from cold again. It seems like churning up the oil is helping. Basically, before I 'clear it out', something is collecting and then burning it when I pull away. No changes were made to the car before the prolem started three weeks ago. If it makes any difference (and it could be my imagination), it smokes worse when the tank is early empty.
I have heard that my mechanic should have replaced the guides at the same time as the seals. Does that make sense?
Welcome any further insight into this problem please ladies and gents. Thanks very much in advance.
10-23-2009, 02:42 AM
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Please go ahead and guess. Let me deal with the experimenting to prove your hypothesis. 
PCV is definitely up for replacement, it takes quite a shake to make it rattle, but I heard that might not mean anything as it is spring loaded.
Thanks for the ideas, keep em coming.
Anybody agree that the valve guides should have been done at the same time as the seals?
PCV is definitely up for replacement, it takes quite a shake to make it rattle, but I heard that might not mean anything as it is spring loaded.
Thanks for the ideas, keep em coming.
Anybody agree that the valve guides should have been done at the same time as the seals?
10-23-2009, 04:45 AM
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Sure, if you want to double or triple the cost. You can do seals without pulling the head, to do guides, the whole top of the motor has to some off.
I'm not convinced your guides or seals are bad. Normally bad seals are evident when you engine brake. The high vacuum pulls oil through the seals. Smoke while you're just sitting there is something else normally.
I'm not convinced your guides or seals are bad. Normally bad seals are evident when you engine brake. The high vacuum pulls oil through the seals. Smoke while you're just sitting there is something else normally.
10-23-2009, 04:50 AM
#6
checked the spark plugs for oil on the end of the threads ?, if you had bad seals, guides etc.. the plugs would show oil on the firing end as telltale sign. If your plugs are dry then you don't need to worry about valve parts.
To me it sounds like two possible things, first is an oil leak possibly around the head or valvecover or perhaps oil pan, which ends up on the hot exhaust system and burns as you are stable, less leakage/smoke as you drive. A bad pcv valve whcih will cause valvecover leakage and other possible leakage as excessive pressure builds up in the top of the engine and as well as the crankcase (putting excess pressure on the piston rings from below).
Check for leaks on all of the engine mating surfaces, valvecover, head, oil pan, oil filter, etc... using a bright flashlight and mirror tool if possible . Change the pcv valve. Do a cleaning cycle on the engine for a short oil change interval by using a reputable engine cleaning solution such as auto-rx, marvel mystery oil, etc.., in combination with a good high mileage oil, as HM oil is good at cleaning and conditioning seals (Valvoline HM, Castrol HM, Mobil HM as some examples). Try a slightly thicker oil viscosity such as 5w-40 if possible for a short oil change interval and see if it helps. Frozen/stuck oil control rings is a possibillity if the engine was run hard in conjunction with a bad pcv valve and it doesn't show up on a compression test. A good gentle engine cleaning interval could be very beneficial IMO, lots of respected oil experts will tell you the same thing.
To me it sounds like two possible things, first is an oil leak possibly around the head or valvecover or perhaps oil pan, which ends up on the hot exhaust system and burns as you are stable, less leakage/smoke as you drive. A bad pcv valve whcih will cause valvecover leakage and other possible leakage as excessive pressure builds up in the top of the engine and as well as the crankcase (putting excess pressure on the piston rings from below).
Check for leaks on all of the engine mating surfaces, valvecover, head, oil pan, oil filter, etc... using a bright flashlight and mirror tool if possible . Change the pcv valve. Do a cleaning cycle on the engine for a short oil change interval by using a reputable engine cleaning solution such as auto-rx, marvel mystery oil, etc.., in combination with a good high mileage oil, as HM oil is good at cleaning and conditioning seals (Valvoline HM, Castrol HM, Mobil HM as some examples). Try a slightly thicker oil viscosity such as 5w-40 if possible for a short oil change interval and see if it helps. Frozen/stuck oil control rings is a possibillity if the engine was run hard in conjunction with a bad pcv valve and it doesn't show up on a compression test. A good gentle engine cleaning interval could be very beneficial IMO, lots of respected oil experts will tell you the same thing.
10-23-2009, 04:50 AM
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burning oil while idling or under a low load is typicaly oil rings. higher combustion chamber pressures get behind the rings and force them outwords creating the seal, but if the rings are worn or bad, when you dont have that outward force, oil gets by and burns off.
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10-23-2009, 07:23 AM
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put the cat back in and see what happens.
bad valve stem seals tend to show up under decell/vaccuum. i dont see this this being the case unless they are all but missing.
what color is the smoke?
bad valve stem seals tend to show up under decell/vaccuum. i dont see this this being the case unless they are all but missing.
what color is the smoke?
10-23-2009, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by QuadraJet,Oct 23 2009, 02:45 PM
Sure, if you want to double or triple the cost. You can do seals without pulling the head, to do guides, the whole top of the motor has to some off.
I'm not convinced your guides or seals are bad. Normally bad seals are evident when you engine brake. The high vacuum pulls oil through the seals. Smoke while you're just sitting there is something else normally.
I'm not convinced your guides or seals are bad. Normally bad seals are evident when you engine brake. The high vacuum pulls oil through the seals. Smoke while you're just sitting there is something else normally.
10-23-2009, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by JFUSION,Oct 23 2009, 02:50 PM
checked the spark plugs for oil on the end of the threads ?, if you had bad seals, guides etc.. the plugs would show oil on the firing end as telltale sign. If your plugs are dry then you don't need to worry about valve parts.
To me it sounds like two possible things, first is an oil leak possibly around the head or valvecover or perhaps oil pan, which ends up on the hot exhaust system and burns as you are stable, less leakage/smoke as you drive. A bad pcv valve whcih will cause valvecover leakage and other possible leakage as excessive pressure builds up in the top of the engine and as well as the crankcase (putting excess pressure on the piston rings from below).
Check for leaks on all of the engine mating surfaces, valvecover, head, oil pan, oil filter, etc... using a bright flashlight and mirror tool if possible . Change the pcv valve. Do a cleaning cycle on the engine for a short oil change interval by using a reputable engine cleaning solution such as auto-rx, marvel mystery oil, etc.., in combination with a good high mileage oil, as HM oil is good at cleaning and conditioning seals (Valvoline HM, Castrol HM, Mobil HM as some examples). Try a slightly thicker oil viscosity such as 5w-40 if possible for a short oil change interval and see if it helps. Frozen/stuck oil control rings is a possibillity if the engine was run hard in conjunction with a bad pcv valve and it doesn't show up on a compression test. A good gentle engine cleaning interval could be very beneficial IMO, lots of respected oil experts will tell you the same thing.
To me it sounds like two possible things, first is an oil leak possibly around the head or valvecover or perhaps oil pan, which ends up on the hot exhaust system and burns as you are stable, less leakage/smoke as you drive. A bad pcv valve whcih will cause valvecover leakage and other possible leakage as excessive pressure builds up in the top of the engine and as well as the crankcase (putting excess pressure on the piston rings from below).
Check for leaks on all of the engine mating surfaces, valvecover, head, oil pan, oil filter, etc... using a bright flashlight and mirror tool if possible . Change the pcv valve. Do a cleaning cycle on the engine for a short oil change interval by using a reputable engine cleaning solution such as auto-rx, marvel mystery oil, etc.., in combination with a good high mileage oil, as HM oil is good at cleaning and conditioning seals (Valvoline HM, Castrol HM, Mobil HM as some examples). Try a slightly thicker oil viscosity such as 5w-40 if possible for a short oil change interval and see if it helps. Frozen/stuck oil control rings is a possibillity if the engine was run hard in conjunction with a bad pcv valve and it doesn't show up on a compression test. A good gentle engine cleaning interval could be very beneficial IMO, lots of respected oil experts will tell you the same thing.
Oil leak sounds interesting, will have to check. I already use 5w40 oil, thanks for the rec anyway. Plugs and oils were changed when the valve seals were done. Thanks for your thoughts.