ruexp67

Ok, the best explaination I have seen here IMHO was made by twohoos. I was taught (once I REALLY learned how to drive) to downshift to help aid braking. The fact is I haven't tried downshifting my S yet as I am still learning the car.

As to most drivers with manual trannys, I believe they simply hit the clutch before even hitting the brake.

I brake in the gear I am in and do not depress the clutch until the revs are at about 3k or so. Try this: Rev to about 7k or so. Then apply the brake firmly, but not too hard. THEN depress the clutch. When I do this, the car seems to surge forward a little bit. Seems to me that the engine braking does help the car to stop. However, as listed above brake fade is much LESS of a concern now, than 30 years ago.

Matt_in_VA

[SIZE=1][FONT=arial][COLOR=blue] Let me weigh in with my two cents on this subject. I agree with the others that mention that brakes are a lot less expensive to replace than synchronizers. Down shifting to engine brake is a driving method that has it's origins to the first generation of sports cars that had weak drum brakes that were prone to over heating and fading. With that said: modern disc brakes do an excellent job of slowing a vehicle and downshifting should be employed not to slow the vehicle but to ensure that one is in the correct gear for rapid acceleration out of the turn one has slowed for. Heel-toe shifting takes practice and is one of the basic skills that is taught at most high performance driving / racing schools such as the Skip Barber school. Rev matching is very important on race car gear boxes that have "straight cut" gears and sometimes no scynchronizers. Wanna race?

Incubus

Key phrase is "to slow down". Brakes slow you, not the engine, but you should downshift in order to keep yourself in the correct gear. So...while you're braking, a nice rev-match and dowshift will be alright. Double-clutching, while fun (and use by myself), is not necessary with today's manuel transmissions.

mina

Sorry to sound like a total clueless idiot, but my first car was a Geo Prizm (thanks, Mom! ) and then I bought my 1996 del Sol Si (which is now totaled... thanks to a white truck that did a hit and run).

Both of those cars were manual transmission, and I have always downshifted to aid in braking or if needing to slow down slightly on the freeway. Is this something I have to watch out for in the S2k... like it will break something prematurely? I've never had to replace the clutches on my previous two cars... so some clarification would be greatly appreciated.

Also, can someone explain "rev matching" to me? I also don't know what the "synchros" are that can get messed up by down shifting, so if someone can explain that I'd be grateful.

cravenj

Primary reason: rev-match.

stookster

This thread is somewhat confusing: I thought the key points of downshifting prior to turning in are to be in the right gear through the turn and, most importantly, to be in the optimal torque range at exit for maximum acceleration???

I believe what many here have said: smooth downshifts during braking/deceleration in a normal street driving environment has very little effect on clutch wear in my own experience with many different cars and many miles -- all with manual transmissions.

Now, go out on track where you're pushing the engine to high RPM ranges constantly and then decelerating rapidly into the corners and you have a whole different ball game: don't you really need BOTH braking and mechanical deceleration if you want to find optimal lines and fast lap times, guys??? I've never seen or heard of anyone record decent laps without downshifting!

It really does come down to practicing and honing good technique: heel-and-toe braking, throttle-blipping and slow-in, fast out are the keys to fast lap times AND avoiding mechanical failure in this environment. And let's face it; if you can't accept replacing a clutch and/or brake pads more often than the average driver, what good is owning a high performance sports car anyway?

NoTorq

No not really. If you can engage ABS with brakes alone that means the tires cannot handle any more braking force. Adding engine deceleration won't help you slow, it'll just make the ABS work harder.

Unless you're getting a lot of brake fade then it might help, but again only until you can reach the tires gripping threshold (right about where ABS kicks in).

Bret

You're fine. Don't worry. The S2000 and all production cars were designed with the understanding that people would drive the way that you, me, and the vast majority of people drive manual transmission cars.

Although I don't understand the exact mechanics of how synchros work, don't worry about them getting messed up by down shifting. They are there so that you can shift up AND down between gears. I'll leave the rev matching and heel-toe explanation to one of our experts.

Gunshow

I also want to know what most mean by rev-matching and how you do this. I am pretty sure I do it, but I need clarification. Thanks.

S2kgoat

Im gonna have to agree about the cars were made to be crappily downshifted. Even an S2000 would be made that way because people who want it just because it looks cool will drive it and downshift like crap.

-Billy

theres my 2cents so flame away if you want.