AP1 Retainers
03-21-2014, 02:22 PM
#11
Originally Posted by Slowcrash_101' timestamp='1395418522' post='23074306
You can't tell just by looking at the top, you can use a little mirror to look at the underside of the retainer as that's where the cracks happen. You could have cracked retainers that look perfectly fine .
However, I did not know that you could actually see the underside of the retainer even with this mirror. I though tit was used to just get a better angle and see any top-side cracks on the came side of the retainers. I would think the valve springs would be in the way and wouldn't have enough clearance to slip the mirror in and see the underside of the spring? I'm no mechanic, so I could be completely wrong.
03-21-2014, 04:59 PM
#12
In your third pic, that cam lobe is wiped out, and the roller on the rocker is probably damaged as well, what is it grinding on to wear it so badly?
I also see the rockers contacting the retainers in the pics, which would lead me to believe the retainers are ready to let go as the springs are now too high. Look at the shiny wear on the retainer all the way around, the spring is being compressed by the rocker arm to the retainer, not as it should be, just by the tip to valve stem.
I also see the rockers contacting the retainers in the pics, which would lead me to believe the retainers are ready to let go as the springs are now too high. Look at the shiny wear on the retainer all the way around, the spring is being compressed by the rocker arm to the retainer, not as it should be, just by the tip to valve stem.
03-21-2014, 05:13 PM
#13
Registered User
In your third pic, that cam lobe is wiped out, and the roller on the rocker is probably damaged as well, what is it grinding on to wear it so badly?
I also see the rockers contacting the retainers in the pics, which would lead me to believe the retainers are ready to let go as the springs are now too high. Look at the shiny wear on the retainer all the way around, the spring is being compressed by the rocker arm to the retainer, not as it should be, just by the tip to valve stem.
I also see the rockers contacting the retainers in the pics, which would lead me to believe the retainers are ready to let go as the springs are now too high. Look at the shiny wear on the retainer all the way around, the spring is being compressed by the rocker arm to the retainer, not as it should be, just by the tip to valve stem.
http://www.tsadvancedsynthetics.com/..._treatment.htm
Regardless of what it is, you should look in to that ASAP.
03-21-2014, 05:18 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Slowcrash_101' timestamp='1395418522' post='23074306
You can't tell just by looking at the top, you can use a little mirror to look at the underside of the retainer as that's where the cracks happen. You could have cracked retainers that look perfectly fine .
I ultimately used a 1/2 inch wide x 2 inch long makeup mirror i stole from my wife. I stuck duct tape on the back side of it and up the edges uncase I accidentally hit it- the tape keeps any possible glass fragments out of the engine. It worked really well once i fed it in between the valve springs. use a strong directional light and you'll be able to see very nearly all the under sides of the retainer.
good luck
darcy
03-21-2014, 05:53 PM
#15
In your third pic, that cam lobe is wiped out, and the roller on the rocker is probably damaged as well, what is it grinding on to wear it so badly?
I also see the rockers contacting the retainers in the pics, which would lead me to believe the retainers are ready to let go as the springs are now too high. Look at the shiny wear on the retainer all the way around, the spring is being compressed by the rocker arm to the retainer, not as it should be, just by the tip to valve stem.
I also see the rockers contacting the retainers in the pics, which would lead me to believe the retainers are ready to let go as the springs are now too high. Look at the shiny wear on the retainer all the way around, the spring is being compressed by the rocker arm to the retainer, not as it should be, just by the tip to valve stem.
. That cam lobe is picking up metal dust caused by improper contact of the valvetrain parts. That is usually a sign that the valve stem is sinking deeper through the retainer. It was hard to tell how the retainers look in many of those pics, but the appearance of that one cam lobe is a bad sign. It is on the intake side as well, which makes sense. I would definitely look at swapping that out before you drop a valve, and if you are going in there you might as well do all of the intakes.
03-21-2014, 06:28 PM
#16
Moderator
You don't check with a mirror, I assure you check from the top. I can see perfectly clear your retainers are completely destroyed and so is your camshaft and VTEC rocker assy, I would not run that engine at all.
With a cam etched that bad, the valve stem, retainers, and keepers are about to snap off as one jammed piece.
Take this to the bank, do not run that engine at all. If you do, I promise you that you will need an engine within a week.
With a cam etched that bad, the valve stem, retainers, and keepers are about to snap off as one jammed piece.
Take this to the bank, do not run that engine at all. If you do, I promise you that you will need an engine within a week.
03-21-2014, 06:29 PM
#17
Moderator
The edges of the springs and edges of the retainers are cutting through the rocker arms right now.
The etched cam is a result of hardened metal powder being ground off the retainer by the roller rocker, and pressed into the camshaft.
Pic 5 shows the retainer in contact with the rocker, due to major cracking and the retainer walking upwards on the valve and keepers. Note the shiny ring around the spring and retainer. This is where the metal was ground off and transferred to the cam, grinding it as well.
The etched cam is a result of hardened metal powder being ground off the retainer by the roller rocker, and pressed into the camshaft.
Pic 5 shows the retainer in contact with the rocker, due to major cracking and the retainer walking upwards on the valve and keepers. Note the shiny ring around the spring and retainer. This is where the metal was ground off and transferred to the cam, grinding it as well.
03-21-2014, 06:34 PM
#18
Community Organizer
I didn't look at your pictures but Billman did so I'll just add this.
This is in your future:
This is in your future:
03-21-2014, 09:20 PM
#19
Former Moderator
That is in his present. Pull the retainers on that engine and they will look just like that.
OP, keep driving it if you want a sweet LS2 or 13B swap.
Your valvetrain is about to make many tiny pieces.
03-22-2014, 05:01 AM
#20
So in his case he would need four new rocker arms, 8 new intake valve springs, a new intake camshaft, and 8 intake keepers and retainers? And that's if his valves are still in good condition.
Four rocker arms go for about $840, $48 for the valve springs, $22 for retainers, and $32 for new keepers, so about $950 shipped, for that you could probably source a decent used head. If your valves are damaged you're pretty much looking at $1,000, which will def get you a used head. I don't know why the rocker arms are so expensive, I feel for you man.
Four rocker arms go for about $840, $48 for the valve springs, $22 for retainers, and $32 for new keepers, so about $950 shipped, for that you could probably source a decent used head. If your valves are damaged you're pretty much looking at $1,000, which will def get you a used head. I don't know why the rocker arms are so expensive, I feel for you man.