AP1 2002 w/ unsettling rear
06-01-2020, 09:19 PM
#22
Registered User
06-02-2020, 04:19 AM
#23
What are you going to use the car for? I ask, because if autocross, then bumpsteer kits are not allowed in STR or street classes.
After autocrossing this car a lot and running track nights with it I would not do a bumpsteer kit and would get the rest of the setup down and learn to drive the car. If you go with a square setup and proper springs/bars you can tame a lot of that down. It will still experience the same camber curve issue, but with stiffer springs you will notice it less and with proper driving you will notice it a LOT less. I find mine to be about right on track and most times not as loose as I like for autocross (I dont mind that since I do not autocross it much anymore and codrive an ND... which is set up WAY more tail happy than my AP1 ).
After autocrossing this car a lot and running track nights with it I would not do a bumpsteer kit and would get the rest of the setup down and learn to drive the car. If you go with a square setup and proper springs/bars you can tame a lot of that down. It will still experience the same camber curve issue, but with stiffer springs you will notice it less and with proper driving you will notice it a LOT less. I find mine to be about right on track and most times not as loose as I like for autocross (I dont mind that since I do not autocross it much anymore and codrive an ND... which is set up WAY more tail happy than my AP1 ).
06-02-2020, 06:50 AM
#24
What are you going to use the car for? I ask, because if autocross, then bumpsteer kits are not allowed in STR or street classes.
After autocrossing this car a lot and running track nights with it I would not do a bumpsteer kit and would get the rest of the setup down and learn to drive the car. If you go with a square setup and proper springs/bars you can tame a lot of that down. It will still experience the same camber curve issue, but with stiffer springs you will notice it less and with proper driving you will notice it a LOT less. I find mine to be about right on track and most times not as loose as I like for autocross (I dont mind that since I do not autocross it much anymore and codrive an ND... which is set up WAY more tail happy than my AP1 ).
After autocrossing this car a lot and running track nights with it I would not do a bumpsteer kit and would get the rest of the setup down and learn to drive the car. If you go with a square setup and proper springs/bars you can tame a lot of that down. It will still experience the same camber curve issue, but with stiffer springs you will notice it less and with proper driving you will notice it a LOT less. I find mine to be about right on track and most times not as loose as I like for autocross (I dont mind that since I do not autocross it much anymore and codrive an ND... which is set up WAY more tail happy than my AP1 ).
BSKs from what I've read are not reliable and I don't want to risk it.
I've thought about going square but researching it was overwhelming; Is there a recommended wheel size / springrate / bar size for the AP1 when going square?
06-02-2020, 07:10 AM
#25
Thanks, its really a semi-daily driver (when my office was open I would drive it on nice days) and weekend car, spirited driving when I can push it but nothing extreme.
BSKs from what I've read are not reliable and I don't want to risk it.
I've thought about going square but researching it was overwhelming; Is there a recommended wheel size / springrate / bar size for the AP1 when going square?
BSKs from what I've read are not reliable and I don't want to risk it.
I've thought about going square but researching it was overwhelming; Is there a recommended wheel size / springrate / bar size for the AP1 when going square?
Wheels - 17X9 +63mm offsets
Fenders - Front fenders required tabs to be rolled. My fenders lips are rolled but I think just tabs will get you what you need
Tires - 255/40/17
Height - I am lowered approx 1"
Springs - I am running 750F/600R but as mentioned, you may want softer for just street use.
Sway bars - Stock rear, Moddiction (Saner copy) front. Karcepts bars are super popular these days for the S2k
Alignment - 0 toe front, 0.1 degree rear toe, -2.6 degrees camber all around (pretty much all I could get with stock adjustment based upon the smallest amount at any one corner, then evened out for all 4)
Your rates and stuff may vary, but that gives you an idea for making everything fit and play nicely.
06-03-2020, 07:41 AM
#26
Registered User
What are you going to use the car for? I ask, because if autocross, then bumpsteer kits are not allowed in STR or street classes.
After autocrossing this car a lot and running track nights with it I would not do a bumpsteer kit and would get the rest of the setup down and learn to drive the car. If you go with a square setup and proper springs/bars you can tame a lot of that down. It will still experience the same camber curve issue, but with stiffer springs you will notice it less and with proper driving you will notice it a LOT less. I find mine to be about right on track and most times not as loose as I like for autocross (I dont mind that since I do not autocross it much anymore and codrive an ND... which is set up WAY more tail happy than my AP1 ).
After autocrossing this car a lot and running track nights with it I would not do a bumpsteer kit and would get the rest of the setup down and learn to drive the car. If you go with a square setup and proper springs/bars you can tame a lot of that down. It will still experience the same camber curve issue, but with stiffer springs you will notice it less and with proper driving you will notice it a LOT less. I find mine to be about right on track and most times not as loose as I like for autocross (I dont mind that since I do not autocross it much anymore and codrive an ND... which is set up WAY more tail happy than my AP1 ).
if you run AP2 wheels with the wider rear tires (255), you will notice a dramatic improvement.
agree with the statements on the stiffer springs and stronger front bar.
i am back on the oem ap1 rear toe arms and have no issues with it anymore due to ap2 wheels, stiffer springs, and stronger front bar.
oh a rear wing helps too, depending how fast you're going.
06-03-2020, 08:14 AM
#27
A dirty steering torque sensor can make a car feel skittish because of inconsistent steering assist. It can make the car feel unstable because the torque sensor will react to road camber and your steering correction, and if it's dirty it will over or under deliver assist, which can make it seem like the car isn't stable or is skittish over bumps.
06-03-2020, 08:17 AM
#28
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I don't think this guy is tracking the car.
He's just wondering about the unusual characteristics of the car on the street.
Honda made revisions to the car because a lot of people likely had the same questions.
If you ARE tracking the car for some sort of timing goal...AP2's are easier to drive faster...and generally end up faster overall due to a more predictable rear wheel steering movement.
The safest BSK is to install the AP2 subframe, UCA and spindles. This resolves a lot of bump steer and only leaves you with the slight "tugging" action from the LSD and whatever swaybar you choose.
An easier measure would be to just set the AP1's alignment to the smaller end of rear toe.
NOTHING will eliminate the increase in oversteer upon lifting the throttle mid-corner, on any car, besides finding a universe where physics is different.
He's just wondering about the unusual characteristics of the car on the street.
Honda made revisions to the car because a lot of people likely had the same questions.
If you ARE tracking the car for some sort of timing goal...AP2's are easier to drive faster...and generally end up faster overall due to a more predictable rear wheel steering movement.
The safest BSK is to install the AP2 subframe, UCA and spindles. This resolves a lot of bump steer and only leaves you with the slight "tugging" action from the LSD and whatever swaybar you choose.
An easier measure would be to just set the AP1's alignment to the smaller end of rear toe.
NOTHING will eliminate the increase in oversteer upon lifting the throttle mid-corner, on any car, besides finding a universe where physics is different.
Last edited by B serious; 06-03-2020 at 08:25 AM.
06-03-2020, 08:36 AM
#29
I don't think this guy is tracking the car.
He's just wondering about the unusual characteristics of the car on the street.
Honda made revisions to the car because a lot of people likely had the same questions.
If you ARE tracking the car for some sort of timing goal...AP2's are easier to drive faster...and generally end up faster overall due to a more predictable rear wheel steering movement.
The safest BSK is to install the AP2 subframe, UCA and spindles. This resolves a lot of bump steer and only leaves you with the slight "tugging" action from the LSD and whatever swaybar you choose.
An easier measure would be to just set the AP1's alignment to the smaller end of rear toe.
NOTHING will eliminate the increase in oversteer upon lifting the throttle mid-corner, on any car, besides finding a universe where physics is different.
He's just wondering about the unusual characteristics of the car on the street.
Honda made revisions to the car because a lot of people likely had the same questions.
If you ARE tracking the car for some sort of timing goal...AP2's are easier to drive faster...and generally end up faster overall due to a more predictable rear wheel steering movement.
The safest BSK is to install the AP2 subframe, UCA and spindles. This resolves a lot of bump steer and only leaves you with the slight "tugging" action from the LSD and whatever swaybar you choose.
An easier measure would be to just set the AP1's alignment to the smaller end of rear toe.
NOTHING will eliminate the increase in oversteer upon lifting the throttle mid-corner, on any car, besides finding a universe where physics is different.
